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Was Natsuki Kuga REALLY a lesbian? [Mai-HiME]

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Re: Was Natsuki Kuga REALLY a lesbian? [Mai-HiME]

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:41 pm

Natsuki-chan wrote:But Natsuki, being the rebel that she is, defied the norms and followed her heart. In the end, she accepted Shizuru's proclamation of love.

ShizNat

^ This. Take into consideration that Natsuki doesn't specifically have a preference (subjective!). Nor does she follow the rules of life except her own. Kuga has always gone against the grain, so it all makes sense to me.

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Re: Was Natsuki Kuga REALLY a lesbian? [Mai-HiME]

Post by Kuga Natsuki on Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:50 pm

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:
Natsuki-chan wrote:But Natsuki, being the rebel that she is, defied the norms and followed her heart. In the end, she accepted Shizuru's proclamation of love.

ShizNat

^ This. Take into consideration that Natsuki doesn't specifically have a preference (subjective!). Nor does she follow the rules of life except her own. Kuga has always gone against the grain, so it all makes sense to me.
To me, Natsuki is only a lesbian for Shizuru :) Perhaps naturally Natsuki has no sexual orientation when it comes to the rest of the people in the world

And maybe she's only a straight girl to Tate in the manga Akira Okuzaki

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Re: Was Natsuki Kuga REALLY a lesbian? [Mai-HiME]

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:17 pm

Nymphetamine wrote:
To me, Natsuki is only a lesbian for Shizuru :) Perhaps naturally Natsuki has no sexual orientation when it comes to the rest of the people in the world

I'd like to believe that Natsuki is Shizurusexual. xD That would be a little bonus for a ShizNat shipper such as myself. o.o

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Re: Was Natsuki Kuga REALLY a lesbian? [Mai-HiME]

Post by Kuga Natsuki on Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:21 pm

Then she most likely is a Shizurusexual XD And a Tatesexual in the manga Akira Okuzaki

Natsuki Kuga : Yeah, let's go with that!

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Re: Was Natsuki Kuga REALLY a lesbian? [Mai-HiME]

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:56 pm

Nymphetamine wrote:Then she most likely is a Shizurusexual XD And a Tatesexual in the manga Akira Okuzaki

Natsuki Kuga : Yeah, let's go with that!

Tatesexual still feels awkward to this day. I've learned to accept it ever since starting Mai-Multiverse.

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When Shizuru said "Ara" for the first time, the "Ara" broke into a thousand pieces and they all went skipping about. That was the beginning of fairies.

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Re: Was Natsuki Kuga REALLY a lesbian? [Mai-HiME]

Post by Wolf-of-Wind on Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:48 am

The fact that we can have this discussion means that Sunrise did a good job. Personally, I think that if you can have Natsuki do all the things she did in Mai-HiME and still leave this aspect of herself ambiguous, then ya did a good job! high five
The point that Natsuki doesn't treat either gender differently has already been made. Fact is that her interaction (or lack of) with both genders leaves it up to fans like us to do as we please with it. Based off her instances with Takeda, she could be straight; those with Shizuru could make one think that she is, indeed, a lesbian. Heck, you could even consider her to be bisexual and it would make sense. What's important is that she doesn't care enough for labels to actually label herself.
The best part is that if you don't agree with the large portion of the Mai-HiME's anime fan base that say she's a lesbian, you could just mosey over to the manga, where she is out-right straight. You're given every possible option, and you can't (technically) ever be incorrect!

... though, for Shizuru's sake, I personally hope she's gay c:
ShizNat2

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Re: Was Natsuki Kuga REALLY a lesbian? [Mai-HiME]

Post by Kuga Natsuki on Thu Jan 03, 2013 1:24 am

Wolf-of-Wind wrote:

... though, for Shizuru's sake, I personally hope she's gay c:
She is, only to Shizuru ^_^ But out in the real world, she doesn't really have a label, it seems, hence why Luu says she's Shizurusexual XDDD Makes sense, since Natsuki basically has no other interest with other people :'3

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Re: Was Natsuki Kuga REALLY a lesbian? [Mai-HiME]

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Sun Jan 06, 2013 7:16 pm

Subjective, but it's true on my end. :) My most lethal defense against Takeda x Natsuki (which I'm also open to) is that Natsuki never trusted Takeda enough to tell him anything deep. She placed her deepest trust in Shizuru above everyone else at Fuuka until Mai showed up and became the 2nd ever person Natsuki could confide in. Yamada and Sakomizu aside, since they're more like informants. I am referring to deep, personal feelings that a young girl is going through.

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When Shizuru said "Ara" for the first time, the "Ara" broke into a thousand pieces and they all went skipping about. That was the beginning of fairies.

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Re: Was Natsuki Kuga REALLY a lesbian? [Mai-HiME]

Post by Icemera on Wed Oct 09, 2013 7:10 am

Wow. Reading these threads is almost educational. Since it's been a long time I last watched Hime, this refreshes my memories!

On my first viewing, Natsuki seemed like a straight girl to me. With her blushing, getting all embarrassed around Takeda. But, with Sunrise's 'They find happiness' bit, it confirmed that her feeling for Shizuru wasn't friendly after all. It kinda made sense since Natsuki was willing to kill herself and die with that ‘psychotic, obsessive lesbian friend of hers’. I don't think that most people would want to die with their best friend. I know I wouldn't. That would be so weird.

Now, to label her what? (Personally, I think Natsuki is too cool to care about labels).

Well, I think that she must at least be bisexual to be able to actually find that happiness Sunrise was talking about. LOL. She is rich, beautiful, cool and all that. A confident person. I don’t see any reason she has to settle for less. In this case, I mean, she could have it all, and if Shizuru wasn’t all for her, she wouldn’t just accept Shizuru out of the feeling of gratitude. Considering the depth of Shizuru's love for her, Natsuki would know that anything less than that would only hurt them both in the long run?? If an emotional bond is all it takes, Natsuki could very well be with Mai, I think.

Most importantly, a happy relationship takes two people to make it work. Surely, Shizuru wouldn’t be happy with a girlfriend who doesn’t find her physically attractive. Like holding hands while going to bed??? Uh, I don’t think so.

So yeah, I think Natsuki is at least bisexual XD (Oh, man, it took me hours to type this long post =_=)

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Re: Was Natsuki Kuga REALLY a lesbian? [Mai-HiME]

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Wed Oct 09, 2013 11:30 pm

Very nice thoughts, Icemera! I couldn't agree more even if I tried. I just want to add that Natsuki seems to have standards, even if she were bisexual. I don't think Takeda qualifies, but Shizuru does to me. Notice how she always blushes around Shizuru and not just in an embarrassed way like she does with Takeda.




^ These examples say to me, "I'm attracted to you."

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When Shizuru said "Ara" for the first time, the "Ara" broke into a thousand pieces and they all went skipping about. That was the beginning of fairies.

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Re: Was Natsuki Kuga REALLY a lesbian? [Mai-HiME]

Post by PostoronnimV on Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:10 am

At the beginning of the anime, I do not think Natsuki even thought about her sexual orientation... she pushed all thoughts about the relationship to the back of her mind. Her focus was completely on her revenge.
But at the end of the anime, imo, Natsuki has become Shizurusexual, at least that's what I'd like to believe =)))

For example, ep. 25, Natsuki kissed Shizuru... I do not kiss on the lips my friends and I would not have even thought of kissing someone to whom I have no attraction, friend or not.

And, of course, the aforementioned passage from the Mai-HiME Animation Book:
"Ultimately when the Battle had concluded, Natsuki again spoke affectionately to Shizuru who was graduating.
Before one is aware, happiness will visit these two..."


So for me, it had confirmed the canonness of ShizNat =)

About Takeda... I never believed, that Natsuki was interested in Takeda even a bit... And after I read "Natsuki no Prelude" for the first time, my opinion was confirmed.

Copy-paste from another topic:
Spoiler:
A few examples from "Natsuki no Prelude" to prove that Natsuki did not have romantic feelings for Takeda at all:

1. "Takeda Masahi.

He was a male student, in the same class as Shizuru, class D. He'd aimed to become the captain of the Kendo Club. One day, even though they'd never really talked to each other, he suddenly appeared in Natsuki's class room, flower bouquet in hand, and with a beet red face asked her out in from of the entire class. A strong character he was, so to speak.

Of course, he was met with a soul-wrecking defeat. But, he did not give up, using everything he could think of to continue his clumsy advances. He seemed to be an honest guy, and even though being treated so cruelly made his heart ache a bit, he felt that, although regrettable, it couldn't be helped. For Natsuki was someone who seemed pretty opposed to embracing the opposite sex."
Natsuki rejected Takeda many times and visibly made ​​it clear that she is not interested... I think any sensible person would have understood the not-so-subtle hint... but not Takeda... he still continued to bother her... irritating her further... And he did not care about Natsuki's feelings, he cared only about his feelings for Natsuki... because otherwise he would have stopped annoy her, seeing that it causes negative emotions in her...

2. Another example:

"But aren't I worried about you all the time? Also, it isn't just me whose mind is occupied with Natsuki, is it? For example--"

Shizuru continued as a strange seriousness shrouded her eyes.

"--- the Kendo Club's captain."

"-----!"

Natsuki couldn't help but flinch at the mention of his name.

Takeda Masahi.
Natsuki did not blush, Natsuki did flinch! ... And this is a very telling reaction!

3. Continuation:

"..... Sorry, I hate being reminded of that big idiot making a fuss about me."

"Oh really? But if I'm not mistaken, didn't it make you just a little happy?"

"It absolutely definitely did not!!"

Shizuru gave a small smile at Natsuki's profuse denial. Any anxiety she had been feeling about the situation washed away.

"Besides, he has given up, hasn't he? I haven't seen him since he became second-year."

"That's because the prefecture's kendo tournament is about to begin and some things have happened within the kendo club. He can't advance if those affairs aren't settled. He doesn't really seem like the kind of guy who would give up..."

"The kendo club? Oh, right, now that you mention it, it was Tate... Yuuichi, right? He was injured or something..."

She hadn't been all that well informed about the incident, but they were in the same class their second year of middle school, so she knew of him. He was the future ace the kendo club had set all their hopes on.

"Seems to be quite a severe injury.... Takeda-kun told me how heartbroken he is that he isn't able to see Natsuki while he is busy dealing with these affairs..."

"Well, what’s bad for Tate is good for me."

"You shouldn't say such things... it is a very serious matter for Tate-kun."

"... I guess. But, I can't help but being a grateful."

"Mou... Natsuki is such a meanie."

Even though her words were scolding, there was relief mixed within Shizuru's tone.
Shizuru felt relief and her anxiety she had been feeling about the situation was washed away... and since Shizuru is good at reading people, that means that she understood that she has nothing to worry about, he's not a threat to her, Natsuki is not interested in him at all.

4. And the last example:

Distancing herself from Takeda's feelings had been an easy task for her. She felt relief, and even a little nostalgia as she thought about it. She hadn't given him any reply, besides a sending a short message that said "Thank you. I'm sorry." before he left when the school was closed down.
Natsuki felt relief, and she would not have felt relief, if Takeda's feelings hadn't been a burden to her.

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Re: Was Natsuki Kuga REALLY a lesbian? [Mai-HiME]

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:34 pm

I concur on the ending of Natsuki no Prelude. That remains proof of their relationship in the series, being officially tied to the anime series and all. Why some fans still argue against it is beyond me. Would you tell me grass is yellow when it's clearly not?

Your theory that Natsuki is simply "Shizurusexual" is also a legitimate claim. When you strip Natsuki (fufufu~ Nice thought~) down, you get a character that hasn't grasped the concept of love until she met Shizuru. By episode 25, she knows what love is and sees it between Mai and Tate (like that scene when Tate and Natsuki are on the hospital. When Tate has his epiphany spaz attack, Natsuki smirks, implying that she knows how he feels about her.) So it's not like Natsuki doesn't know what love is, but it just doesn't seem to click to her when it comes to certain genders. Rather the individual.

Shizuru is a person is she not? Is she not human? That's all Natsuki needs to know. It was Shizuru's support that stole Natsuki's heart.

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When Shizuru said "Ara" for the first time, the "Ara" broke into a thousand pieces and they all went skipping about. That was the beginning of fairies.

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Re: Was Natsuki Kuga REALLY a lesbian? [Mai-HiME]

Post by PostoronnimV on Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:33 am

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:I concur on the ending of Natsuki no Prelude. That remains proof of their relationship in the series, being officially tied to the anime series and all. Why some fans still argue against it is beyond me. Would you tell me grass is yellow when it's clearly not?

Your theory that Natsuki is simply "Shizurusexual" is also a legitimate claim. When you strip Natsuki (fufufu~ Nice thought~) down, you get a character that hasn't grasped the concept of love until she met Shizuru. By episode 25, she knows what love is and sees it between Mai and Tate (like that scene when Tate and Natsuki are on the hospital. When Tate has his epiphany spaz attack, Natsuki smirks, implying that she knows how he feels about her.) So it's not like Natsuki doesn't know what love is, but it just doesn't seem to click to her when it comes to certain genders. Rather the individual.

Shizuru is a person is she not? Is she not human? That's all Natsuki needs to know. It was Shizuru's support that stole Natsuki's heart.
I agree with you on all points, Luu... I have nothing to add!

But I forgot to add to my previous post, that, imo, Natsuki didn't kiss Shizuru to snap her out of her state... I think she kissed her, because she was overcome with feelings towards Shizuru... and for me, it is very telling ... ShizNat

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Re: Was Natsuki Kuga REALLY a lesbian? [Mai-HiME]

Post by shezaei-neko on Mon Jun 20, 2016 11:22 pm

Here are my two cents in the matter.

I've been thinking about this for a while, and I feel that Natsuki Kuga could very well be a demisexual.
She doesn't find any sexual/physical attraction to any of the other characters, and the fact that she blushes depends on the situation.
Most of it is embarrassment.
Also, she's known Shizuru for a while, hence creating a bond.
That's maybe why she felt so confused. Since she didn't experienced any attraction to anyone before until she met Shizuru and that bond grew stronger.

And after a bit of search, I think she could be a Panromantic Demisexual. Meaning? She doesn't care about the gender of the other person she loves, but first she must have a deep connection with them.

And his dislike of Takeda could be because he just approached her because she was pretty; for her looks and that's it. Unlike Shizuru.
Of course Shizuru found Natsuki attractive and mysterious and that's why she approached her too, but unlike Takeda, she tried to understand Natsuki, began to create a bond, which is what was important for Natsuki.

And that's why she was able to return Shizuru's feelings by the end. cocky ShizNat


On a side note, I think that Akira could be gender fluid. devious


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Re: Was Natsuki Kuga REALLY a lesbian? [Mai-HiME]

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:45 pm

shezaei-neko wrote:
On a side note, I think that Akira could be gender fluid.  devious  


Same goes for Takumi. He was turned on by Akira-kun before the big "You know my secret. Now you must DIE!" reveal. Your boobs are grande sized, Miss Okuzaki! You cannot hide them forever~

On the subject of Natsuki Kuga, you may be right about the demisexual theory. As we mentioned here and on the podcast, there seems to be a lack of attraction to both genders. For the most part. I argued that her blushing is at it's highest peak around other girls. You say it's further embarrassment, seeing how Shizuru always puts her on spot. Whatever the case may be for her, she developed a bond with Shizuru before the events of the show even started.

COMPLETELY 100% AGREE WITH THE NOTION OF TAKEDA LIKING NATSUKI FOR SUPERFICIAL REASONS! To him, Natsuki was just a girl he wanted to bang, prison shank, etc. He just couldn't bring himself to start, nor hold a coherent conversation with her about anything beyond the weather. When he constantly brings up his need to train extensively, I can't help but agree. All the training in the world won't play catch up with Shizuru, who by that point had developed a secret bond of trust with Natsuki.

Here are shots from episode III. In this scene alone, ShizNat already share the following:


Cooperation.


Trust.


Dirty humor.


Concern.

And this is just the third episode. Some newer fans believe the template for ShizNat was created in the Carnival arc. Nnnnnnnnope. Long before that if you were paying attention. Viola

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When Shizuru said "Ara" for the first time, the "Ara" broke into a thousand pieces and they all went skipping about. That was the beginning of fairies.

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Re: Was Natsuki Kuga REALLY a lesbian? [Mai-HiME]

Post by GAP on Sat Jul 09, 2016 1:30 am

Do you think guys think that Natsuki could bisexual? OR at least exploring?

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Re: Was Natsuki Kuga REALLY a lesbian? [Mai-HiME]

Post by Break String SpinElf on Sun Jul 10, 2016 8:53 am

My two-penn'orth.

First of all, what struck me about Natsuki was, of course, her initially being (Shizuru apart) something of a loner. I don't think this has any bearing on her sexuality as it's more of a mask she wears: the air of unapproachability & imperiousness that she cultivates is more a defensive mechanism, aimed at deterring anyone from getting too close to her. It is, of course, a mask she wears, with her almost androgynous outer persona masking her inner life which presents a more feminine side.

Primarily, in my opinion, this is due to her circumstances: she's conducting research into the plans of the First District with the aim of potentially inserting a spanner into the works. This is a dangerous game - she herself missed a year's schooling and her mother was killed after crossing them. As such, any intimate relationships that Natsuki might've developed would give First District leverage and put Natsuki's friends or lovers in immediate peril. Thus her primary motivation for intimacy avoidance is most likely, in my view, to be cold, hard pragmatism.

She's also very goal-orientated, which could signify that she has put off matters of romance simply as they are not an immediate priority for her as the Carnival is about to begin.

With regards to her sexuality, maybe she doesn't initially have a marked preference either way. The events of Natsuki no Prelude, in which she leaves a letter for Takeda rejecting his suit, would seem to support this. However, it is more likely in my view that this is more of a courtesy: despite his inability to spit it out, much to her chagrin it must be said, Natsuki is aware that he holds a candle for her.

Her choice of Shizuru as the recipient of her ardour is perhaps more to do with their already having shared some intimacy. Natsuki appreciates her for being such a dear friend ("The student council president's access to the school's intranet is very much more higher than of a normal student" - :3), thus, combined with Shizuru's obvious passion for Natsuki, makes Shizuru the ideal choice with whom Natsuki can explore her romantic feelings. Obviously, with her deep-seated trust issues, it's likely that it'd take time for Natsuki to fully open up, but I get the impression that Shizuru would wait until doomsday for her. In addition, I suspect that Natsuki's more tender attitude towards Shizuru goes back some time before the series: Natsuki no Prelude presents her as manifesting her HiME powers early on, which presupposes the existence of a Most Valuable Person. In the absence of any other potential candidates, this must surely be Shizuru.

Hope that makes sense, which would be a refreshing change for me.

Edit: apart from any underlying sexual orientation or preference which Natsuki might display, could her father's indecent haste to tootle off with another woman whilst Natsuki was still in the care of the hospital not also be a factor? It would certainly seem to make her more inclined to trust members of her own sex as such an abandonment could easily lead to a lowering of her opinion of males in general (perhaps a notional abandonment by her father may also be at play in Nao's psyche?).


Last edited by Break String SpinElf on Thu Jul 14, 2016 1:50 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Added the bit at the bottom marked "Edit.")

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Re: Was Natsuki Kuga REALLY a lesbian? [Mai-HiME]

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:50 pm

Break String SpinElf wrote:
I suspect that Natsuki's more tender attitude towards Shizuru goes back some time before the series: Natsuki no Prelude presents her as manifesting her HiME powers early on, which presupposes the existence of a Most Valuable Person. In the absence of any other potential candidates, this must surely be Shizuru.

If that was true in the early going of Natsuki no Prelude, then Natsuki herself wasn't fully aware of it. We're meant to think that Natsuki is the only "untouchable" HiME because there's no one she truly loves. Added insurance policy for her and Duran, thanks to her deceased mother (as cruel as that sounds. But Saeko was no angel, either!)

Still stand by the notion of subconscious attachment and 100% trust in Shizuru Fujino before Mai entered the fray. Natsuki was just too damn focused on her objective to consider anything MIP; even post-Nagi Carnival announcement.

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Re: Was Natsuki Kuga REALLY a lesbian? [Mai-HiME]

Post by Break String SpinElf on Sun Sep 11, 2016 3:10 pm

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:If that was true in the early going of Natsuki no Prelude, then Natsuki herself wasn't fully aware of it. We're meant to think that Natsuki is the only "untouchable" HiME because there's no one she truly loves. Added insurance policy for her and Duran, thanks to her deceased mother (as cruel as that sounds. But Saeko was no angel, either!)

Still stand by the notion of subconscious attachment and 100% trust in Shizuru Fujino before Mai entered the fray. Natsuki was just too damn focused on her objective to consider anything MIP; even post-Nagi Carnival announcement.
Agree wholeheartedly. Shizuru is the one who pretty much turned her life around so Natsuki feels massive appreciation regardless of whether or not she would admit so - even to herself.

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Re: Was Natsuki Kuga REALLY a lesbian? [Mai-HiME]

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Sun Sep 11, 2016 10:15 pm

Break String SpinElf wrote:
Agree wholeheartedly. Shizuru is the one who pretty much turned her life around so Natsuki feels massive appreciation regardless of whether or not she would admit so - even to herself.

I think as sharp as Natsuki is, she's oblivious to the most basic things. If she even has a gaydar, she couldn't detect any waves coming from Shizuru. Even though she gives her these looks:




cocky : TOO BUSY TO NOTICE THE GAY.

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When Shizuru said "Ara" for the first time, the "Ara" broke into a thousand pieces and they all went skipping about. That was the beginning of fairies.

Luu Sky Sapphire
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Re: Was Natsuki Kuga REALLY a lesbian? [Mai-HiME]

Post by GAP on Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:37 pm

Natsuki misses out on a lot of things but then again, Natsuki is socially awkward to anything that isn't defeating the First District.

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Re: Was Natsuki Kuga REALLY a lesbian? [Mai-HiME]

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:08 am

GAP wrote:Natsuki misses out on a lot of things but then again, Natsuki is socially awkward to anything that isn't defeating the First District.

Right you are, GAP. Just goes to show how out of touch she is with the concept of a normal life. But when those moments arise, like Mia's birthday, Midori's karaoke party, etc., she looks like she's having the time of her life. Suffice it to say, these moments were so far and few between.



Girl's on a mission. dawn

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When Shizuru said "Ara" for the first time, the "Ara" broke into a thousand pieces and they all went skipping about. That was the beginning of fairies.

Luu Sky Sapphire
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Re: Was Natsuki Kuga REALLY a lesbian? [Mai-HiME]

Post by GAP on Sun Oct 02, 2016 7:29 pm

Indeed. Natsuki is socially awkward person who is essentially a child solider on a mission.

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Re: Was Natsuki Kuga REALLY a lesbian? [Mai-HiME]

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Mon Oct 03, 2016 11:37 pm

GAP wrote:Indeed. Natsuki is socially awkward person who is essentially a child solider on a mission.

Think I wouldn't say child soldier. Granted, she love cuddly stuffed animals and video games...but beyond her personal enjoyment and hobbies, the girl is mature as they come. Just don't place her in awkward situations with Midori and Takeda. XD

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The law of physics: Whenever there's this much gay in one room, Shizuru manifests!
When Shizuru said "Ara" for the first time, the "Ara" broke into a thousand pieces and they all went skipping about. That was the beginning of fairies.

Luu Sky Sapphire
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Re: Was Natsuki Kuga REALLY a lesbian? [Mai-HiME]

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