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Natsuki and Shizuru getting together - What's your view on it?

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Re: Natsuki and Shizuru getting together - What's your view on it?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Wed Sep 03, 2014 3:37 pm

Antiope wrote:
Btw Luu, you promised me on Deviant Art that you would upload the director's cut on youtube for me kawaiidesuplz
I cannot forget such a promise lol

Was that me? swoon

Yes, I do remember. Again, it was on YouTube once before FUNimation took it down. I did find a place where I could upload it freely, so expect the video sometime this week. Wink

PostoronnimV wrote:
To me, in that scene, Shizuru looked rather bashful herself, blushing a little ... and making shy first steps in a new relationship as a couple... since I like to think that, by this time, they have already started dating =)


The Kuro no Mai Saigo no Bansan OVA implies that they're dating now, so I'm not a bit surprised. devious Get her, Shizuru. Natsuki, remember to spread em' wide~



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When Shizuru said "Ara" for the first time, the "Ara" broke into a thousand pieces and they all went skipping about. That was the beginning of fairies.

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Re: Natsuki and Shizuru getting together - What's your view on it?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Fri Sep 05, 2014 12:20 am

shizurubaby Authorized double post! shizurubaby

Special Director's Cut Ending [Mai-HiME Episode 26]

GRANDE CHIE Seek your Director's Cut ending there!

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The law of physics: Whenever there's this much gay in one room, Shizuru manifests!
When Shizuru said "Ara" for the first time, the "Ara" broke into a thousand pieces and they all went skipping about. That was the beginning of fairies.

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Re: Natsuki and Shizuru getting together - What's your view on it?

Post by Antiope on Fri Sep 05, 2014 6:02 am

PostoronnimV, I thought I saw Shizuru with her usual little smile, but that's not easy to see it clearly. You must be right, she seems to be only blushing. She's so cute, being bashful like that blush
That's not usual ^^

Luu : hontoni arigatou kawaiidesuplz
As nothing lasts forever on the Internet now I must find a way to download it.
Natsuki's back  kawaiidesuplz
I like Haruka's angry reaction when she discovers the University top ranking ^^
Er... why is Natsuki sleeping in Mai's and Mikoto's room ? (by the way, they have huge beds oO). I know that Natsuki's flat has been destroyed (like the dormitories, by the way), but even though... She could have moved with Shizuru, for instance in the tea house  cocky

I didn't watch the whole episode, but it's also interesting to see the differences between english and french translations. At the picnic, Mai said "it's a good thing to be liked", the french translation is something more like "love is great".
Another difference in translation which really disturbed me : in episode 25, after the fight between Natsuki and Shizuru, Natsuki said "I wasn't able to reciprocate my feelings in the way that you wanted". In the french translation she said "I cannot have the feelings you wish I had". Well, it's more optimistic in the english version, because she spoke about her feelings in the past, but it can change Razz
And later, Natsuki said "watashi wa omae ga suki da". I don't speak Japanese, I know there is several words for "love" ("suki", "ai", "koi"...) but I don't know the differences between them. I don't know which one is more suitable for love in couples. In english it's translated by "I also love you Shizuru", in french it's something that can be translated by "I like you Shizuru". That's not exactly the same thing ! You wouldn't say "I love you" to a simple friend, would you ?

Now you can understand why I firstly thought that Natsuki did reject Shizuru, the french version is quite pessimistic ! The english version sounds like a real love declaration. Now I have to take Japanese lessons to now which translation is closer to the original text ^^

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Re: Natsuki and Shizuru getting together - What's your view on it?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Fri Sep 05, 2014 8:13 pm

Antiope wrote:Luu : hontoni arigatou kawaiidesuplz
As nothing lasts forever on the Internet now I must find a way to download it.
Natsuki's back  kawaiidesuplz
I like Haruka's angry reaction when she discovers the University top ranking ^^
Er... why is Natsuki sleeping in Mai's and Mikoto's room ? (by the way, they have huge beds oO). I know that Natsuki's flat has been destroyed (like the dormitories, by the way), but even though... She could have moved with Shizuru, for instance in the tea house  cocky

I didn't watch the whole episode, but it's also interesting to see the differences between english and french translations. At the picnic, Mai said "it's a good thing to be liked", the french translation is something more like "love is great".
Another difference in translation which really disturbed me : in episode 25, after the fight between Natsuki and Shizuru, Natsuki said "I wasn't able to reciprocate my feelings in the way that you wanted". In the french translation she said "I cannot have the feelings you wish I had". Well, it's more optimistic in the english version, because she spoke about her feelings in the past, but it can change Razz
And later, Natsuki said "watashi wa omae ga suki da". I don't speak Japanese, I know there is several words for "love" ("suki", "ai", "koi"...) but I don't know the differences between them. I don't know which one is more suitable for love in couples. In english it's translated by "I also love you Shizuru", in french it's something that can be translated by "I like you Shizuru". That's not exactly the same thing ! You wouldn't say "I love you" to a simple friend, would you ?

Now you can understand why I firstly thought that Natsuki did reject Shizuru, the french version is quite pessimistic ! The english version sounds like a real love declaration. Now I have to take Japanese lessons to now which translation is closer to the original text ^^

This one has a better chance on some streaming website than YouTube. Still, I hope you find a way to steal it. Maybe the embed link/code can work on KeepVid.

Anyway, I love Natsuki's back! Didn't you notice that her boobs are bigger than before?! WHAT HAPPENED! Natsuki's always had a good chest, but all of a sudden it rivals Mai's! haha!

Haruka's reactioon to the University ranking is so perfect! It's part homage to the Shining Days opening and the fact that Shizuru will *always* surpass her.

Natsuki's stay in Mai and Mikoto's dormitory is the most confusing part. Why isn't she with Shizuru?! My headcanon says she wanted a simple sleepover party with her friends and ended up pretending that her spare pillow is Shizuru. :3 The two live together now thanks to Kuro no Mai, the Director's Cut and Natsuki no Prelude all implying it~

---

See, I've never watched Mai-HiME in French before, (although that would be immensely educational! I love everything French and am a huge French history nut. I mean, I even added a Marie Antoinette (yeahIknowshe'sactuallyAustriabutdon'tcarrrrrestillFrenchQueen) emoticon for us:

Antoinette

The Rose of Versailles rules!

Back on topic, I have heard of certain yuri anime (or anime with yuri couples in it) being loosely or alternatively translated for their fansubs because the country fansubbing it has a problem with homosexuality. Natsuki didn't flat out reject Shizuru, she just said she didn't feel that way about her *before*. I've seen Kannazuki no Miko and Maria-sama ga Miteru's Spanish fansubs tampered with that way and it's fruitless! You cannot disguise gay, no matter how hard you try! Biggest example of all is Sailor Moon S! If Haruka and Michiru are truly "cousins", then they're the gayest, most touchy feely cousins I've ever seen! laugh

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The law of physics: Whenever there's this much gay in one room, Shizuru manifests!
When Shizuru said "Ara" for the first time, the "Ara" broke into a thousand pieces and they all went skipping about. That was the beginning of fairies.

Luu Sky Sapphire
Administrator. The Showstopper. The Headliner. The Main Event. The Icon. Mr. Mai-Series.
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Re: Natsuki and Shizuru getting together - What's your view on it?

Post by Antiope on Sat Sep 06, 2014 9:20 am

It didn't work with KeepVid or other websites that can usually deal with Youtube videos. But I found a way to download it while investigating the page's source code  Mikoto Minagi
AND... after that I saw that there's links to download the video at the bottom of the page swoon  What an idiot ! Nina Wang

Well, now I guess I should also download the other episodes so that I would see if there's other major differences between the translations.
I don't like to watch videos on streaming websites, it's too dependant of the quality of Internet connection. Plus, I will move next week and will be one or two weeks without Internet at home Natsuki Kuga

Of course I noticed the increased size of Natsuki's breast ^^ I'm a lesbian after all !
What happened ? Hmm... Shizuru's magic ?  Shizuru Kaichou
But you're exaggerating, she still cannot rival Mai's or Shizuru's. (And personally I don't like too big breasts. Natsuki's boobs are great how they are !)

Viola : Fufufu, I'm the only one allowed to look at my Natsuki's breast

Antiope : glup...


Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:The two live together now thanks to Kuro no Mai, the Director's Cut and Natsuki no Prelude all implying it~
I agree that they are a couple, but what indicates that they are actually living together ?

Concerning the Natsuki no Prelude, I've read it again quite recently, and I realized something.
Once again, I've read the french version. At the end it is said that there is someone she wants to accept the feelings, even if she doesn't understand these feelings. That she loves/likes (I don't know which one to use, the french language is ambiguous with this verb) Shizuru even if she doesn't have the feelings Shizuru wanted her to have.
First I thought this scene took place after the Festival, but I realized that no, it's during the 25th episode just after the talk with Sakomizu-sensei. Well, it doesn't change the face of the world, I just realized it. And what is said in Natsuki's Prelude is coherent with what she said to Shizuru before they died : that she cannot have the feelings Shizuru wanted her to have. The use of the present time makes it sound categorical, definitive, unchangeable.

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:Natsuki didn't flat out reject Shizuru, she just said she didn't feel that way about her *before*
The "before" changes everything ;-) That's why I prefer the english translation Razz I should also read Natsuki's Prelude in english !

Officially France has no problem with homosexuality, France is not Uganda ! Now same-sex marriages are allowed, but you surely have heard about the difficult debates about it, where a small part of the population showed their reactionary, conservative face and spread their despising, aggressive and full of hatred ideas. It was a very hard time for gay people and it didn't give the world a good opinion of France :( (Luu, I'm glad that you love France anyway ^^ Have you ever visit France ?)
But still, there's almost no gay characters in programs that aim at children in general. And that's how japanese animes are mainly considered...
I don't know who translated Mai HiME in french and if there's several versions, but yeah they can bowdlerize if they want... F*cking censorship !
And yeah, in some cases like Sailor Moon, it's as sad as ridiculous.

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Re: Natsuki and Shizuru getting together - What's your view on it?

Post by Hohoemu on Sun Sep 07, 2014 10:07 am

Hi hi! (nope I'm not a ghost, but Luu-sama asked for my intervention so here I am again after half a century ^-^)

Just slipping into the parenthesis to say that I almost never turn the TV on to witness the decay of French programs but I guess you'll never see anything that could look like homosexuality in programs for children. Most of the time it's still the so cliché knight/princess concept with clear gender distinction.
In France today homosexuals are accepted (rather tolerated by some) but that doesn't mean parents tell their kids "you know that love is possible between two boys or two girls". Just as no parent would tell you they'd like their child to be gay... I mean, here you won't always get a good beating for being openly gay but homosexuality is still taboo in children's world. I remember my little sister being a bit like "uh... lesbians?!" after watching Mai HiME X)

Makes me think The Rose of Versailles must have seemed highly provocative at the time, with all the Oscar-being-a-man-who's-actually-a-woman-in-love-with-a-man-but-still-being-such-a-lady-killer thing haha!!
How I loved the way she undermines her father's attempt to find her a husband by kissing all the lovely girls at the feast in her finest uniform *-*

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Re: Natsuki and Shizuru getting together - What's your view on it?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Mon Sep 15, 2014 6:50 pm

Antiope wrote:I agree that they are a couple, but what indicates that they are actually living together?

Wishful thinking. datgodess

Antiope wrote:Concerning the Natsuki no Prelude, I've read it again quite recently, and I realized something.
Once again, I've read the french version. At the end it is said that there is someone she wants to accept the feelings, even if she doesn't understand these feelings. That she loves/likes (I don't know which one to use, the french language is ambiguous with this verb) Shizuru even if she doesn't have the feelings Shizuru wanted her to have.
First I thought this scene took place after the Festival, but I realized that no, it's during the 25th episode just after the talk with Sakomizu-sensei. Well, it doesn't change the face of the world, I just realized it. And what is said in Natsuki's Prelude is coherent with what she said to Shizuru before they died : that she cannot have the feelings Shizuru wanted her to have. The use of the present time makes it sound categorical, definitive, unchangeable.

Hoho-chan (who posted above me) is the one who did the French translation. Ask her about it.


Antiope wrote:Officially France has no problem with homosexuality, France is not Uganda ! Now same-sex marriages are allowed, but you surely have heard about the difficult debates about it, where a small part of the population showed their reactionary, conservative face and spread their despising, aggressive and full of hatred ideas. It was a very hard time for gay people and it didn't give the world a good opinion of France :( (Luu, I'm glad that you love France anyway ^^ Have you ever visit France ?)

France is just like the United States in a lot of respects. It's widely accepted here with only an ever shrinking group of voices continuing to damn it. And yes, I have visited France before! Only Paris, though. Next time I'm planning to break away from the basic tour and explore the countryside.

Hohoemu wrote:In France today homosexuals are accepted (rather tolerated by some) but that doesn't mean parents tell their kids "you know that love is possible between two boys or two girls". Just as no parent would tell you they'd like their child to be gay... I mean, here you won't always get a good beating for being openly gay but homosexuality is still taboo in children's world. I remember my little sister being a bit like "uh... lesbians?!" after watching Mai HiME X)

Makes me think The Rose of Versailles must have seemed highly provocative at the time, with all the Oscar-being-a-man-who's-actually-a-woman-in-love-with-a-man-but-still-being-such-a-lady-killer thing haha!!
How I loved the way she undermines her father's attempt to find her a husband by kissing all the lovely girls at the feast in her finest uniform *-*

XD First off, when did your sister watch Mai-HiME? If she watched it around the time of it's release, surely she possesses a better understanding of it and homosexuality by now! haha!

*-* PRECISELY! Then you have all the low level subtext implications between Oscar and Marie Antoinette. But the real first yuri subtext couple ever has to be Oscar and Rosalie. Rosalie implied that she didn't care whether or not Oscar was a female. To have a bi-sexual character wanting to be in a homosexual relationship was unheard of in the 1970s. Keep in mind this was nearly two decades before Haruka Tenoh and Michiru Kaioh came around. THREE decades before ShizNat!

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The law of physics: Whenever there's this much gay in one room, Shizuru manifests!
When Shizuru said "Ara" for the first time, the "Ara" broke into a thousand pieces and they all went skipping about. That was the beginning of fairies.

Luu Sky Sapphire
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Re: Natsuki and Shizuru getting together - What's your view on it?

Post by Hohoemu on Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:40 am

Hoho-chan (who posted above me) is the one who did the French translation. Ask her about it.

Yup, that's me. Though I should probably start it all over because it must be full of errors I would no longer make.

Well my sister started watching it when I did so that must have been some 5 years ago. She wasn't even 10 years old then so her reaction was quite normal I suppose.

I don't understand the Oscar-Marie Antoinette yuri thing... There's absolutely nothing between the two of them, and if it were not for Jeanne no one would ever have thought about it.
Besides, Rosalie got it right : male or female is not what's important ^-^

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Re: Natsuki and Shizuru getting together - What's your view on it?

Post by Antiope on Mon Sep 22, 2014 3:08 am

Sorry for the late answer. New job, new flat, and a lot of work -_-

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:
Antiope wrote:Concerning the Natsuki no Prelude, I've read it again quite recently, and I realized something.
Once again, I've read the french version. At the end it is said that there is someone she wants to accept the feelings, even if she doesn't understand these feelings. That she loves/likes (I don't know which one to use, the french language is ambiguous with this verb) Shizuru even if she doesn't have the feelings Shizuru wanted her to have.
First I thought this scene took place after the Festival, but I realized that no, it's during the 25th episode just after the talk with Sakomizu-sensei. Well, it doesn't change the face of the world, I just realized it. And what is said in Natsuki's Prelude is coherent with what she said to Shizuru before they died : that she cannot have the feelings Shizuru wanted her to have. The use of the present time makes it sound categorical, definitive, unchangeable.

Hoho-chan (who posted above me) is the one who did the French translation. Ask her about it.

In fact, if it had been taken place after the Carnival it would have been an additional proof that Natsuki did not understand love and could not return Shizuru's feelings. Since it happened before their famous conversation in episode 25, I like to think that after their death Natsuki's opinion could have changed. Just after they came back to life Natsuki forgives all to Shizuru, very easily. Did she had time to think about it when she was... neither dead nor alive ? ^^
Plus, Natsuki's behavior during the graduation and the picnic (Natsuki and Shizuru both blushing and coming from we don't know where, etc) makes it clear that they are as close as before or even closer than before. So this sentence about accepting Shizuru's feelings without understanding them would have been a sort of regression to my eyes. I think there is some time (maybe several months) between the Carnival and the graduation so Natsuki's feelings had time to evolved.
I'm currently reading an excellent fanfic in which it's related how she finally figure out that she loves Shizuru the same way  Happy


Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:France is just like the United States in a lot of respects. It's widely accepted here with only an ever shrinking group of voices continuing to damn it. And yes, I have visited France before! Only Paris, though. Next time I'm planning to break away from the basic tour and explore the countryside.
Well, if you plan to visit Lille, just let me know  Wink

Maybe I should watch The Rose of Versailles, I have to find it in VO with french subtitles, I'm sure it will be fun to hear french names pronounced by japanese people XD

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Re: Natsuki and Shizuru getting together - What's your view on it?

Post by Hohoemu on Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:38 am

I should try the original version too, because the french one just sucks... as usual.
That's the reason why I have the dvds at home but never went past episode 2 or so XP Anyway, visually it cannot match the books.

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Re: Natsuki and Shizuru getting together - What's your view on it?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Sun Sep 28, 2014 7:43 pm

XD Oh, it's amusing to hear the Japanese pronunciations. It doesn't bother me since the series came out in the 70s; there's a charm to the dialogue.

BTW, French The Rose of Versailles and Mai-HiME aren't the only series said to have an iffy translation (both dialogue and/or fansub). I heard the German version got it the worst. After one of my moderators told me this 5 years ago on the forum, I'm still hoping to watch Mai-HiME in German dub or sub (especially all ShizNat scenes) to fully understand what she meant. XD

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When Shizuru said "Ara" for the first time, the "Ara" broke into a thousand pieces and they all went skipping about. That was the beginning of fairies.

Luu Sky Sapphire
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Re: Natsuki and Shizuru getting together - What's your view on it?

Post by Kuga Natsuki on Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:40 am

Shizuru Kaichou : Ara, so many theories~

Why don't you tell us what really happened, Fujino? Akira Okuzaki

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Re: Natsuki and Shizuru getting together - What's your view on it?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:20 pm

Kuga Natsuki wrote:Shizuru Kaichou : Ara, so many theories~

Why don't you tell us what really happened, Fujino? Akira Okuzaki

That's because Fujino is an enigma of the highest magnitude. XD The funny thing is, I doubt she told Natsuki *everything* there is to tell about herself. Can you imagine a Shizuru with no mystery? Remember, Natsuki was drawn to how "strange" (her words) her girlfriend was when they first met.

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The law of physics: Whenever there's this much gay in one room, Shizuru manifests!
When Shizuru said "Ara" for the first time, the "Ara" broke into a thousand pieces and they all went skipping about. That was the beginning of fairies.

Luu Sky Sapphire
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Re: Natsuki and Shizuru getting together - What's your view on it?

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