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Is Natsuki Kuga a true Tsundere?

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Is Natsuki Kuga a true Tsundere?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Fri Jun 28, 2013 5:03 pm


---

When you look up the meaning of Tsundere, there are so many variation definitions for the term. This is the most common from the "source of sources", Wikipedia:

Tsundere (ツンデレ?, pronounced [tsɯndeɽe]) is a Japanese character development process that describes a person who is initially cold and even hostile towards another person before gradually showing his or her warm side over time. The word is derived from the terms tsun tsun (ツンツン?), meaning to turn away in disgust, and dere dere (デレデレ?) meaning to become 'lovey dovey'. Originally found in Japanese bishōjo games, the word is now part of the otaku moe phenomenon, reaching into other media such as maid cafes, anime, manga, novels, and even mass media. The term was made popular in the visual novel Kimi ga Nozomu Eien.

In your opinion, what truly defines the character of Natsuki Kuga as a Tsundere? We often call her one because of her rough exterior and tendency to be snappy towards others, but is she a true Tsundere because of that? Does she fall in love alongside characters like Homura Akemi of Puella Magi Madoka Magica fame?

Discuss and debate (nicely!) ShizNat2 

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Re: Is Natsuki Kuga a true Tsundere?

Post by franticfranz on Sat Jun 29, 2013 7:11 am

Luu, you may want to check this:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Tsundere

I have to re-read the definition in Wikipedia versus the link I found above to re-analyze. I'll post my opinion then, once I have done so. :)

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Re: Is Natsuki Kuga a true Tsundere?

Post by CaptainVonCookie on Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:05 pm

Wow, that tvtrope definition is all over the place, plus has Yandere mixed up!
In truth the Tsundere original meaning is just as Luu said. It's a process from harsh and aloof to warming up to someone and showing a more affectionate side over time.

However, no matter how u look at it, the definition has evolved into a character characteristic that is always present! The definition most people encounter now is of someone who just isn't honest about themselves. They act hostile to someone when they want to act affectionately or openly towards them.

Now, Natsuki. She is a Tsundere!! She works hard to look cool and aloof in situations she really cares about! And she had lots of Tsundere moments. Like with Shizuru or Mai, she was hostile at first but later on warmed up to them and showed them affection.

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Re: Is Natsuki Kuga a true Tsundere?

Post by Tomoe on Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:11 pm

No, she's muuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuch more evil than that.

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Re: Is Natsuki Kuga a true Tsundere?

Post by PostoronnimV on Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:17 pm

Manga!Natsuki is 100% tsundere... but I would not call anime!Natsuki a tsundere... Natsuki is an introvert and plus emotionally closed off, and she takes forever to open up to someone and to grow warmer towards this someone...but does it make her a tsundere? I do not think so.

She did not have truly 'tsun tsun' moments... (something close to 'tsun tsun' moments were moments with Takeda... but it is understandable... when someone does not understand the word 'no' and that you are not interested and keeps annoying you with his bothersome courtship... it will likely anger anyone, even the most patient ones...)

She also did not have truly 'dere dere' moments...

And Natsuki never was rude/boorish/hostile for no reason... also she wasn't faking her cold and aloof behaviour... she is who she is... And I doubt that she will ever cease to be reticent and aloof and will become a warm, outgoing, open person towards everyone. She will show her caring and warm side only to those who have gained her trust and became dear to her...


Last edited by PostoronnimV on Tue Jul 02, 2013 2:39 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Is Natsuki Kuga a true Tsundere?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:24 pm

Thanks for the link, Franny! Isn't TVTrope constantly edited like wikipedia? XD A lot of the tropes are all over the place like CaptainVonOreo said. Judging by their list, Natsuki is a very subtle Tsundere compared to the others these people must of seen!

CaptainVonCookie wrote:Now, Natsuki. She is a Tsundere!! She works hard to look cool and aloof in situations she really cares about! And she had lots of Tsundere moments. Like with Shizuru or Mai, she was hostile at first but later on warmed up to them and showed them affection.

Exactly! Many of those Tsundere moments rared their pretty heads when Takeda was around or if Mai asked her very pressing questions; thus getting the usual "URUSAI!" reply from Natsuki. XD

Now a lot of what V-Chan said just now is true. Natsuki's "Tsunere" behavior wasn't just for show. If we've learned anything from this series, everything Natsuki expressed was quite genuine. She IS cold, serious and a *bit* cynical. Especially at the start of the series. But she IS also be clumsy, cranky and a huge dork. If Natsuki had been more of the Tsun Tsun type, wouldn't she pursue Takeda more often? In those "I secretly like you, but I'm going to express hostility to hide my feelings" type scenarios from a series like Toradora or something. Clearly not the case here. Now you brought up heterosexual mayo-addict Natsuki from the manga...apply what I just said to Manga Tate, only Manga Natsuki was a lot more direct with her feelings about him than Shizuru.

Just saying that and the thought of busting Batman makes me feel all...dirty. rei burn 

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Re: Is Natsuki Kuga a true Tsundere?

Post by PostoronnimV on Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:48 pm

PostoronnimV wrote:And Natsuki never was rude/boorish/hostile for no reason...
I forgot to add... yes, Natsuki was cold towards Shizuru and Mai at first, but she never was hostile towards them... even in the first episode, there was no hostility or malice or hard feelings in her actions towards Mai or Mikoto... she just wanted to spoil the plans of the First District to gather all of HiMEs...

Natsuki only acted hostile towards Nagi and Takeda and not without a good reasons... plus there was not even a shred of affection in her actions towards them, so it can not be said that she was just being tsundere who tried to hide her tender feelings for them behind hostility...

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Re: Is Natsuki Kuga a true Tsundere?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:36 pm

PostoronnimV wrote:
Natsuki only acted hostile towards Nagi and Takeda and not without a good reasons... plus there was not even a shred of affection in her actions towards them, so it can not be said that she was just being tsundere who tried to hide her tender feelings for them behind hostility...

I can't imagine anyone thinking that Natsuki had feelings for Nagi. XD Takeda can be argued, but it's a futile attempt. Natsuki did blush around Takeda in episode 4, but that wasn't a "It's HIM! What do I do? What do I say?!" blush. It was more of a "Shiiit...if I don't get out of here fast, he's eventually going to see my new trim job!" blush of embarrassment.

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Re: Is Natsuki Kuga a true Tsundere?

Post by CaptainVonCookie on Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:35 am

PostoronnimV wrote:
PostoronnimV wrote:And Natsuki never was rude/boorish/hostile for no reason...
I forgot to add... yes, Natsuki was cold towards Shizuru and Mai at first, but she never was hostile towards them... even in the first episode, there was no hostility or malice or hard feelings in her actions towards Mai or Mikoto... she just wanted to spoil the plans of the First District to gather all of HiMEs...

Natsuki only acted hostile towards Nagi and Takeda and not without a good reasons... plus there was not even a shred of affection in her actions towards them, so it can not be said that she was just being tsundere who tried to hide her tender feelings for them behind hostility...

If someone shoots at me I think they are being pretty hostile rei burn !! Natsuki Kruger2 unless you speak of certain parts of the world... where shooting is followed by "Hello, come in, I'll tend to ur shoulder bullet hole during tea!! It's been 5 shots since I've seen you!"
She was trying to kill Mai and Mikoto in the first ep! They were matched, but without their powers they would have been shot!! After the warnings Natsuki gave them she was aiming for the kill, the first time we see Mai's powers are an testament to that! Her mission was to stop Himes from gathering.

She went tsundere on Takeda though. Not in terms of romantic feelings, but he is a likable guy and she just didn't know how to deal with his advances, specially in public.

Luu: Sigh... Luu, Luu, Luu... what am I to do with you? It seems you completely missed the point of Mai Hime! Natsuki and Nagi were deeply inlove before the show started! They were lovers!! The Carnival was set in motion after Natsuki broke off with Nagi trying to come to terms with her feelings for Shizuru! A scorned Nagi didn't like it one bit, so he arranged to get all the other himes there and started the huge clock in the library that set in motion all the events of the Carnival. Because if he couldn't be happy, then nobody could!!

The tragedy it was for Natsuki, the betrayal!!! It brought forth all those bottled up feelings of abandonment and every time she saw Nagi she had to try and shoot him! But Nagi was patient! He knew Shizuru was a Hime and sooner or later she would gladly die to save Natsuki and she'd be free again to be HIS!!!

True story!

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Re: Is Natsuki Kuga a true Tsundere?

Post by PostoronnimV on Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:28 pm

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote: Natsuki did blush around Takeda in episode 4, but that wasn't a "It's HIM! What do I do? What do I say?!" blush. It was more of a "Shiiit...if I don't get out of here fast, he's eventually going to see my new trim job!" blush of embarrassment.
Lol... You're right, plus from 'Natsuki no Prelude', we know:
Spoiler:
Distancing herself from Takeda's feelings had been an easy task for her. She felt relief, and even a little nostalgia as she thought about it. She hadn't given him any reply, besides a sending a short message that said "Thank you. I'm sorry." before he left when the school was closed down.
Natsuki would not have felt relief,if his feelings would not have been a burden to her.

CaptainVonCookie wrote:If someone shoots at me I think they are being pretty hostile rei burn!! Natsuki3unless you speak of certain parts of the world... where shooting is followed by "Hello, come in, I'll tend to ur shoulder bullet hole during tea!! It's been 5 shots since I've seen you!"
She was trying to kill Mai and Mikoto in the first ep! They were matched, but without their powers they would have been shot!! After the warnings Natsuki gave them she was aiming for the kill, the first time we see Mai's powers are an testament to that! Her mission was to stop Himes from gathering.
No, you're right... I just expressed my thought not properly. If we are only talking about Natsuki's actions, then, yes, her actions by itself were hostile. But there was no hostile or hard feelings towards them, there was complete indifference towards them, in terms that even if someone else would have been in their shoes, Natsuki would have done the same thing... they just had been in her way... and she did not really care by what means she will accomplish her mission. I have already said somewhere that, imo, Natsuki operated by a principle "end justifies the means".

But later when Natsuki and Mai are already familiar.... when was Natsuki hostile towards Mai? Or has been tsundere-like towards Mai? ... or towards Shizuru?

Though may be it all comes down to definition of tsundere... for me, tsundere, as Luu had already mentioned, who is like "I secretly like you, but I'm going to express hostility to hide my feelings" or "I secretly care about you, but I will act/pretend like I don't care about you"... And Natsuki does not fall into this category at all...

CaptainVonCookie wrote:She went tsundere on Takeda though. Not in terms of romantic feelings, but he is a likable guy and she just didn't know how to deal with his advances, specially in public.
Well, Mai acted the similar way around Tate at first... plus in this case, in terms of romantic feelings... Is she a tsundere?

Also I already wrote above... when someone does not understand the word 'no' and that you are not interested and keeps annoying you with his bothersome courtship... it will likely anger anyone, even the most patient ones...

Natsuki rejected Takeda many times and visibly made ​​it clear that she is not interested... I think any sensible person would have understood this not so subtle hint... but not Takeda... he still continued to bother her... irritating her further... And he did not care about Natsuki's feelings, he cared only about his feelings for Natsuki... because otherwise he would have stopped annoy her, seeing that it causes negative emotions in her...

And I had encountered once Takeda-like(not a bad guy, but who does not understand the word 'no') guy... And it isn't the most pleasant memory for me... He kept bother me, regardless of the fact that I repeatedly made it clear that I'm not interested... It got to the point that I even began to feel hatred for him... He gave up only after my friend, at my request, did talk to him "nicely"... I know it's wrong, but I just didn't know what else to do.


Last edited by PostoronnimV on Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:39 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Is Natsuki Kuga a true Tsundere?

Post by CaptainVonCookie on Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:02 pm

PostoronnimV wrote:
And I had encountered once Takeda-like(not a bad guy, but who does not understand the word 'no') guy... And it isn't the most pleasant memory for me... He kept bother me, regardless of the fact that I repeatedly made it clear that I'm not interested... It got to the point that I even began to feel hatred for him... He gave up only after my friend, at my request, did talk to him "nicely"... I know it's wrong, but I just didn't know what else to do.

You did the right thing!! When someone doesn't stop bothering you when you directly speak to them about it then it just shows they may be dangerous! Asking friends for help is the way to go, it always shows you are not alone.

lady fumi bless Takeda for being the comic relief of the show though!

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Re: Is Natsuki Kuga a true Tsundere?

Post by PostoronnimV on Thu Jul 04, 2013 6:22 pm

CaptainVonCookie wrote:You did the right thing!! When someone doesn't stop bothering you when you directly speak to them about it then it just shows they may be dangerous! Asking friends for help is the way to go, it always shows you are not alone.
Thank you=)

CaptainVonCookie wrote:Luu: Sigh... Luu, Luu, Luu... what am I to do with you? It seems you completely missed the point of Mai Hime! Natsuki and Nagi were deeply inlove before the show started! They were lovers!! The Carnival was set in motion after Natsuki broke off with Nagi trying to come to terms with her feelings for Shizuru! A scorned Nagi didn't like it one bit, so he arranged to get all the other himes there and started the huge clock in the library that set in motion all the events of the Carnival. Because if he couldn't be happy, then nobody could!!

The tragedy it was for Natsuki, the betrayal!!! It brought forth all those bottled up feelings of abandonment and every time she saw Nagi she had to try and shoot him! But Nagi was patient! He knew Shizuru was a Hime and sooner or later she would gladly die to save Natsuki and she'd be free again to be HIS!!!

True story!
GRANDE CHIE 
*Dun dun DUUUUUUN* Evidence of the veracity of this story:

Source: The vastness of the Internet, the most reliable source!

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Re: Is Natsuki Kuga a true Tsundere?

Post by CaptainVonCookie on Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:26 am

Takeda OMG!!! I never saw that before!!! I'm in shock!!!

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