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Was Haruka Suzushiro homophobic/Anti-Gay/Lesbian? End the debate!

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Was Haruka Suzushiro homophobic/Anti-Gay/Lesbian? End the debate!

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:13 pm

HiME Was Haruka Suzushiro homophobic/Anti-Gay/Lesbian? HiME







---

Most answers have pointed to 'yes' in past discussions. In Episode 22 of Mai-HiME, Haruka confronts Shizuru on more than just leaving her Student Council duties. She addresses Shizuru kissing Natsuki while she's asleep, as if it were a sinful act. Sinful in what way though? The idea of two women being in love? Haruka did toss Natsuki's name into the mix, as if Natsuki did have a relationship with Shizuru. It must hurt Yukino to know her dear friend is against the idea of two women being together, since she herself is locked in a closet. Come on, you know it's true!

Then we have the flip side of the coin. Suzushiro-san's temper makes her say things she doesn't mean, this is a given throughout the series. Do you feel she didn't mean those things about the idea of two women? This thread will house discussion to confirm Haruka's disapproval of homosexuality or defend her character by saying it was a big misunderstanding. To me, if Haruka was truly against homosexuality, I feel she would think differently upon discovering Yukino's preference. Yukino coming out would most likely snap Haruka out of her prejudice, but that's just me.

Rant, discuss, and share! Armitage

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Re: Was Haruka Suzushiro homophobic/Anti-Gay/Lesbian? End the debate!

Post by PostoronnimV on Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:12 am

Yes, I do believe that Harika is homophobic... And the proof of it is not only her words to Shizuru, but also her reaction to the kiss...



Because Haruka screamed out indignantly not because she thought/knew/realized that Shizuru was kissing Natsuki against her will, but because in her opinion it is not acceptable between two girls and, in additives to this, she assumed that they fool around when her beloved school is in a state of ruin...

Although I do not think Haruka is a lost case, but Yukino will need a lot of patience, because it will be a long, laborious and hard work of changing Haruka's beliefs on this matter...

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Re: Was Haruka Suzushiro homophobic/Anti-Gay/Lesbian? End the debate!

Post by CaptainVonCookie on Sat Apr 20, 2013 6:08 pm

Hmmm, I believe it was the heat of the moment theory. Haruka is more than familiarized with Shizuru around females and never had a problem outside wanting the attention for herself.

She has a problem with how Shizuru conducts herself generally but not her sexuality per say. She both idolizes her and feels she's better suited to assume Shizuru's position. It started out as an all out competition but Haruka started to admire Shizuru and seeking her approval. She has a Tsundere feel when it comes to Shizuru.

However, she has a tendency to let her mouth run. She was already stressed out and mad at Shizuru, finding her skipping out on student council work to fool around with Natsuki while the students faced fatal freaky events just completely triggered her nasty self. Similar to throwing a tantrum! She was left in charge like she always wanted, but knew she was over her head and when turned to someone she trusted could fix it all and refused to do so... Gloves are off, and let's hurt them like we've been hurt!

Going after one's sexuality in any kind of situation is wrong. I'd have to hear the episode again and check for translation discrepancies. But there could have been the issue of not being two women, but showing affection in public which is taboo in Japan.
I'm assuming she meant it was wrong for them to be both women instead of that. In which case I really think it was more of a shock to see that the Student Council President ran off leaving the school to destruction in favor of a tryst and betraying Haruka's faith in her. She said something she didn't mean just to get a response from a by now extremely inexpressive Shiruzu.

Haruka could have attacked plenty of characters plenty times over it and never did so. And she has no problems with telling crap to people's noses that are none of her business either!

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Re: Was Haruka Suzushiro homophobic/Anti-Gay/Lesbian? End the debate!

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Sun Apr 21, 2013 6:17 pm

Whether Haruka was being straight up honest (Haruka is a lot of things, but she will certainly tell it like it is) or as Cap pointed out, blowing off some steam, Haruka to me was indeed homophobic.

Haruka was raised in a wealthy environment where it was most likely taught to her that honesty, fair play, law and order and all that self-righteous belief was essential for a healthy life. She took it a step further with her ambitions to become Student Council President, only to end up Executive Director. This set back didn't slow her down at all, proving she has the motivation to maintain order at Fuuka Academy. It's impossible for someone like her to see the beauty of Shizuru and Natsuki's relationship (Haruka THINKS they're together at this point in the episode), when all she was probably exposed to the world as being black and white. Though it makes me cringe thinking of Haruka in a heterosexual relationship (no man would put up with her...realistically), there's a strong chance that she firmly believes that love is only between a man and woman.

It was PostoronnimV who pointed out the reaction from the kiss. A picture's worth a thousand words in our topic discussion, when a gay kiss is considered shocking. Yukino's road to changing Haruka's views will be extremely long, PostoronnimV. Longer if Haruka does the unthinkably, heartbreaking thing by rejecting Yukino's love. HaruKino fans will die from sorrow. =(

@ CaptainVonCookie: My shots were from the Bandai Entertainment translation. For a -hopefully- more clear answer to your questions, refer to the fansub translation and see if it changes your opinion any.

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Re: Was Haruka Suzushiro homophobic/Anti-Gay/Lesbian? End the debate!

Post by Kuga Natsuki on Sun Apr 21, 2013 9:25 pm

My opinion is that Haruka is somewhat homophobic, because she doesn't really understand how being in a rainbow works. She's not entirely familiar with homosexuality and perhaps love. Plus Haruka was insanely angry at Shizuru for abandoning her duties, and people do tend to say things they don't entirely mean to say when in an argument

I can't say she's REALLY homophobic, because even around Shizuru (after the Carnival), she didn't really seem to care about Shizuru's sexuality (beach episode, I'm talking about). Maybe Haruka is one of those types who think same-sex love is "filthy" as an opinion, but doesn't shove it down peoples' throats. That's the right way of handling an opinion, anyway

Just throwing some ideas out there. Yeah

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Re: Was Haruka Suzushiro homophobic/Anti-Gay/Lesbian? End the debate!

Post by shezaei-neko on Sun Apr 21, 2013 10:30 pm

I say: Yes, Haruka is homophobic.
Given the way she reacted and specially what she said.

I know she's seen Shizuru's fan-club and how all the girls go crazy about her, and even if Shizuru may have flirted with them by winking an eye or an innocent kiss on the cheek, Haruka knew (IMO) that Shizuru was only kidding and would never do anything with any girl. That it was part of her personality and was just teasing, just fooling around with no real intentions of being with any of them.
Haruka let that pass because she considered it mere admiration for someone. And since nothing remotely sexual would be going on, she was fine with it.
Maybe on how a child wants recognition from a teacher and would do almost anything to get it. Something like that...

But, when she saw the kiss, it's when she understood that Shizuru did want something with a girl, that one being Natsuki.
And it's then that she can't accept it. Since she preferred to be with another girl having fun while the school was in chaos.
If it had been a man, maybe Haruka would have found it romantic or maybe give some kind of support...

And I think that maybe if Yukino were to confess to Haruka, it'd take a lot of time for her to accept it. But it'd be with the idea of: Loving another person of the same gender in a sexual way is wrong. Except Yukino, 'cause she can't be wrong.

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Re: Was Haruka Suzushiro homophobic/Anti-Gay/Lesbian? End the debate!

Post by CaptainVonCookie on Mon Apr 22, 2013 4:42 am

Nymphetamine wrote:My opinion is that Haruka is somewhat homophobic, because she doesn't really understand how being in a rainbow works.

This was a beautiful quote!!!! The rainbow has a strict code of conduct!!! Abide by it or be branded as a colorless person and its guardians will kick you out!!! poptart kat By your privates! gay unicorn

Well after checking some subs and listening to them better she indeed made homofobic remarks, however she was set in having her return with them until Shizuru coldly said she could have her place and Yukino could help her instead of her. But if we go by the wealthy argument:
Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:Haruka was raised in a wealthy environment where it was most likely taught to her that honesty, fair play, law and order and all that self-righteous belief was essential for a healthy life. She took it a step further with her ambitions to become Student Council President, only to end up Executive Director. This set back didn't slow her down at all, proving she has the motivation to maintain order at Fuuka Academy. It's impossible for someone like her to see the beauty of Shizuru and Natsuki's relationship (Haruka THINKS they're together at this point in the episode), when all she was probably exposed to the world as being black and white. Though it makes me cringe thinking of Haruka in a heterosexual relationship (no man would put up with her...realistically), there's a strong chance that she firmly believes that love is only between a man and woman.

Do you guys think that she'd firmly be set on the Japanese mind set that marriage is for politically and economical reasons, (the whole vs the individual), hence why she'd reject all distractions from making the family proud, including not understanding how a woman would just leave her important duty and responsibility to play with a woman which would be meaningless, since they aren't even a possible future option in that mind set? Or would she have developed some serious homofobic tendencies due to it instead? I find a little education on the first assumption usually takes care of it quickly.

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Re: Was Haruka Suzushiro homophobic/Anti-Gay/Lesbian? End the debate!

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Thu Apr 25, 2013 11:24 pm

That's the thing, Cap! How would YOU "educate" Haruka Suzushiro. It's already hard to get through to people with strong stances and opinions. Shizuru Fujino It never hurts to try though, so enlighten us please~

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Re: Was Haruka Suzushiro homophobic/Anti-Gay/Lesbian? End the debate!

Post by RoyBread on Fri Apr 26, 2013 2:40 am

Haruka is a true bigot. If you just check the dictionary you'll see the word describes her perfectly. With that said, her character flaws are interesting and i really like her.

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Re: Was Haruka Suzushiro homophobic/Anti-Gay/Lesbian? End the debate!

Post by CaptainVonCookie on Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:02 am

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:That's the thing, Cap! How would YOU "educate" Haruka Suzushiro. It's already hard to get through to people with strong stances and opinions. Shizuru Fujino It never hurts to try though, so enlighten us please~

It's a delicate issue. There's no full proof method since every situation is different and no one person is the same. However, it's not impossible. I've seen hard headed, hardcore bible preachers go from declaring war to tasting the rainbow and wanting babies with it.

What you said about people with strong stances and opinions raises a different kind of problem. If we put aside Natsuki and Shizuru's urge to kill Diana we would have two people shouting back and forth why it's right and why it's wrong. In my experience, no matter the issue at hand this only makes people bear a grudge. If you are attacking the other person the same way they do to you, you aren't listening to either argument, it becomes a battle of who shouts the loudest or who hits harder. By that time even if one side realizes maybe they are wrong it's a pride matter and they won't want to lose even at the cost of their humanity. Realizing one is wrong at that point is less like settling a serious matter and more like losing to someone else.

If you want someone to understand their wrongdoings you need to be able to speak to them, not shout a list that'll make them feel reprimanded in front of their peers or just you, the one they right now hate for making a fool out of them.

The best person for this job would be Yukino, speaking to Haruka and making her understand her feelings and why they can't be wrong even if they aren't reciprocated. Shizuru could have done it too had it been an after school meeting in the student council office just the two of them, through casual chatting. It needs to be an environment where they don't feel threatened and can really listen to what's being said. Otherwise even if you say the earth is round they'll fight you to the end that it's squared!

On a side note... This is not an opinion. Being against one's sexuality even silently is being against human rights. People need to understand that.

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Re: Was Haruka Suzushiro homophobic/Anti-Gay/Lesbian? End the debate!

Post by shezaei-neko on Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:26 pm

Don't you think that Haruka might feel betrayed or even think that Shizuru had 'corrupted' Yukino in some way and turned her into one of "them"?
Yukino is a very close friend to her, her most important person, someone she trusts above everything and anything. So, if Yukino were to talk with Haruka about those feelings, don't you think Haruka will think Yukino was "brainwashed" or that she has misunderstood those feelings, or some crap like that?

I'm not saying that Haruka can't be convinced to accept her and this kind of love. But I do wonder what her first reaction would be. Since I don't think she'd embrace the Rainbow Unicorn flag out of the blue.

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Re: Was Haruka Suzushiro homophobic/Anti-Gay/Lesbian? End the debate!

Post by CaptainVonCookie on Sat Apr 27, 2013 6:12 am

I can see that happening. She's a stubborn girl confident on her views after all.
However, she's not one to turn on her selective hearing on purpose. If Yukino raises her voice the slightest bit and tells her with all confidence those are her feelings and even that she had them before they even met Shizuru, Haruka would be forced to listen. She always does when Yukino stands up for herself.

Plus, it'd take time for her to get used to the fact that Yukino has feelings for her. Haruka is an honest girl so I believe she'd be straight to Yukino and tell her she needs some time to assimilate it. Not so much the gay part, but the best friend has feelings for her part.

On the other hand, would it be more interesting to see a truly bigot on the show? With such open characters that easily accept each other having the dark side also shown for educational purposes? And someone so likable like Haruka?

When likable characters are openly bigots I feel it fosters acceptance of the notion. "They are cool, so everything they do is cool."
On the other hand makes the smart people think and it's easier to spot the good guys that would be against a seemingly cool character.

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Re: Was Haruka Suzushiro homophobic/Anti-Gay/Lesbian? End the debate!

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Sun Apr 28, 2013 8:41 pm

Sadly, Mai-HiME wasn't designed for Haruka to get a lesson in acceptance of others. It would of made a nice little sub-plot to have Haruka not only develop further as a character, but also learn that Yukino felt the same way Shizuru felt about Natsuki and, well, accept it.

No friendship is worth losing over what skin color we are or what gender we prefer. Labels are stupid to me; and I'm confident that Haruka is smart enough to understand that too.

ShezNek, the reaction would most likely be shock. Haruka wouldn't "convert" Yukino "back" to being heterosexual. What she would do is question WHY. Once Yukino explains WHY, Haruka will understand. Think of it as a reality check; Haruka curses anyone who is homosexual, but when her own friend is revealed to be homosexual, she realizes the obvious:

IT. DOES. NOT. MATTER.

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When Shizuru said "Ara" for the first time, the "Ara" broke into a thousand pieces and they all went skipping about. That was the beginning of fairies.

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Re: Was Haruka Suzushiro homophobic/Anti-Gay/Lesbian? End the debate!

Post by CaptainVonCookie on Sun Apr 28, 2013 9:20 pm

In my mind they are endgame anyway~

I dare anyone to say otherwise! I will hack you, find your address and personally tell you what I think of your opinion! With my loyal friend Mr. Knife.

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Re: Was Haruka Suzushiro homophobic/Anti-Gay/Lesbian? End the debate!

Post by Highman on Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:58 pm

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:Sadly, Mai-HiME wasn't designed for Haruka to get a lesson in acceptance of others. It would of made a nice little sub-plot to have Haruka not only develop further as a character, but also learn that Yukino felt the same way Shizuru felt about Natsuki and, well, accept it.

No friendship is worth losing over what skin color we are or what gender we prefer. Labels are stupid to me; and I'm confident that Haruka is smart enough to understand that too.

ShezNek, the reaction would most likely be shock. Haruka wouldn't "convert" Yukino "back" to being heterosexual. What she would do is question WHY. Once Yukino explains WHY, Haruka will understand. Think of it as a reality check; Haruka curses anyone who is homosexual, but when her own friend is revealed to be homosexual, she realizes the obvious:

IT. DOES. NOT. MATTER.

I will say something to this thread

IT. DOES. NOT. MATTER.

About the rant or what she said to Shizuru all it matter and truly matters that Shizuru gives Haruka the shaft by the end of tenseful scene. Now in the next series, were gonna see buttin deer horn with Haruka and Shizuru, don't expect Haruka to become the next HiME and finally go toe2toe with Shizuru.

In the end brains kill braun, that's all comes down to.

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Re: Was Haruka Suzushiro homophobic/Anti-Gay/Lesbian? End the debate!

Post by CaptainVonCookie on Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:51 am

Highman wrote: (...) all it matter and truly matters that Shizuru gives Haruka the shaft (...)

gay unicorn:*giggles*

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Re: Was Haruka Suzushiro homophobic/Anti-Gay/Lesbian? End the debate!

Post by Ice Silver Crystal on Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:02 am

yes she is i'm afraid.
still, suzushiro-san is not a bad person to me. :/

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Re: Was Haruka Suzushiro homophobic/Anti-Gay/Lesbian? End the debate!

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Mon Apr 29, 2013 8:58 pm

CaptainVonCookie wrote:
Highman wrote: (...) all it matter and truly matters that Shizuru gives Haruka the shaft (...)

gay unicorn:*giggles*

Highman's futa fantasies found their way into this seri-o-so discussion thread. How very...droll. Shizuru Kaichou

Ice Silver Crystal wrote:yes she is i'm afraid.
still, suzushiro-san is not a bad person to me. :/

You're right, Haruka is not a bad person. She obviously cares for others than herself, even with an ego so big, that it has it's own zip code. She's really unique like that. So she's not a bad person, just an uneducated one. In this particular field anyway.

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Re: Was Haruka Suzushiro homophobic/Anti-Gay/Lesbian? End the debate!

Post by fortunelestion on Sun Mar 16, 2014 3:00 pm

Haruka isn't a Homophobic. Is she even know about love?
I guess not. She is an innocent girl.

She defended Yukino when Shizuru satirized her. I think she always thinking of Yukino, and will do anything for her. Maybe she was mistaken her love to Yukino, as a faithful friendship. When Diana lost, Haruka was about to disappear, Her mind voiced "Yukino... I..."
It sounded like she wanted to confess her love to Yukino.

If Yukino happened to confess her love to Haruka. Haruka surely will be surprised. Maybe before hearing Haruka answer, Yukino will broke down in tears. Double shocked for Haruka (I feel sorry for her heart lol) Haruka will calm down, and ask Yukino to give her time, to think about it. Then she will accept her in the end, well because she is Yukino.

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Re: Was Haruka Suzushiro homophobic/Anti-Gay/Lesbian? End the debate!

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Mon Mar 17, 2014 2:36 pm

fortunelestion wrote:Haruka isn't a Homophobic. Is she even know about love?
I guess not. She is an innocent girl.

She defended Yukino when Shizuru satirized her. I think she always thinking of Yukino, and will do anything for her. Maybe she was mistaken her love to Yukino, as a faithful friendship. When Diana lost, Haruka was about to disappear, Her mind voiced "Yukino... I..."
It sounded like she wanted to confess her love to Yukino.

If Yukino happened to confess her love to Haruka. Haruka surely will be surprised. Maybe before hearing Haruka answer, Yukino will broke down in tears. Double shocked for Haruka (I feel sorry for her heart lol) Haruka will calm down, and ask Yukino to give her time, to think about it. Then she will accept her in the end, well because she is Yukino.

That is a powerfully positive way of looking at it! While I don't agree still, I do get what you're trying to do. Haruka would never crush Yukino's feelings, especially if their true. If she loves her in a romantic way, Haruka would not squirm. She would understand and answer Yukino in the right way possible.

The ONLY reason I disagree with you is because of what Haruka said about Shizuru being disgusting (implying her feelings for Natsuki and the sleeping kiss).

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Re: Was Haruka Suzushiro homophobic/Anti-Gay/Lesbian? End the debate!

Post by fortunelestion on Fri Mar 21, 2014 9:43 am

There're possibilities if Haruka had been in love with Yukino since they were still children. The way she always protect Yukino. But being someone who lives to uphold justice, she tried to bury her feeling because society taught her that it was wrong. Then when she saw Shizuru kissed Natsuki she was surprised. Haruka shouted to Shizuru for not being a responsible Kaichou. Who was neglected her duty when the school needed her the most. The other than that she asked 'What was that?' I think she implied 'What you did to your friend?'. She hoped that Shizuru will come with her. But she shocked when Shizuru easily threw away her position, and when Shizuru mocked Yukino for being 'in closet', that was the last string for Haruka to see Shizuru stepped so low. With her stresses piled up, plus her Yukino had mocked by the person who she had been admired. She threw all sentences which filled her mind, that's include love between girls (Because that's what she saw near that confrontation). I think that just because she was very angry. Not because she detest love between girls.

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Re: Was Haruka Suzushiro homophobic/Anti-Gay/Lesbian? End the debate!

Post by Ice Silver Crystal on Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:07 am

fortunelestion wrote:There're possibilities if Haruka had been in love with Yukino since they were still children. The way she always protect Yukino. But being someone who lives to uphold justice, she tried to bury her feeling because society taught her that it was wrong. Then when she saw Shizuru kissed Natsuki she was surprised. Haruka shouted to Shizuru for not being a responsible Kaichou. Who was neglected her duty when the school needed her the most. The other than that she asked 'What was that?' I think she implied 'What you did to your friend?'. She hoped that Shizuru will come with her. But she shocked when Shizuru easily threw away her position, and when Shizuru mocked Yukino for being 'in closet', that was the last string for Haruka to see Shizuru stepped so low. With her stresses piled up, plus her Yukino had mocked by the person who she had been admired. She threw all sentences which filled her mind, that's include love between girls (Because that's what she saw near that confrontation). I think that just because she was very angry. Not because she detest love between girls.

.///. i agree with you and luu
haruka-san to me has conflicting feelings....
her feelings for yukino-san as a little girl
her, what luu calls conservative morals as a teenager
she is stuck between two emotions ._.

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Re: Was Haruka Suzushiro homophobic/Anti-Gay/Lesbian? End the debate!

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:28 pm

So you girls think Haruka is on the fence? Internally struggling with the idea of loving another girl herself when she irrationally damned Shizuru for it. It's a good theory, but that also begs the question of Haruka's own sexuality.

Notice how she *never* gushes over men. Not even as a passing mention. She doesn't even blush when Reito works his charms on her.

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Re: Was Haruka Suzushiro homophobic/Anti-Gay/Lesbian? End the debate!

Post by fortunelestion on Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:58 am

Ice Silver Crystal wrote:
.///. i agree with you and luu
haruka-san to me has conflicting feelings....
her feelings for yukino-san as a little girl
her, what luu calls conservative morals as a teenager
she is stuck between two emotions ._.

*high fives* Yay, my Ice supports my analysis Luu  devious 
Thank you Ice  Hug 

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:So you girls think Haruka is on the fence? Internally struggling with the idea of loving another girl herself when she irrationally damned Shizuru for it. It's a good theory, but that also begs the question of Haruka's own sexuality.

Notice how she *never* gushes over men. Not even as a passing mention. She doesn't even blush when Reito works his charms on her.

I think her sexuality was Asexual. The both side didn't attract her. Just Yukino who succeed to melt her heart  Think 

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Re: Was Haruka Suzushiro homophobic/Anti-Gay/Lesbian? End the debate!

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Sun Mar 30, 2014 5:53 pm

fortunelestion wrote:I think her sexuality was Asexual. The both side didn't attract her. Just Yukino who succeed to melt her heart  Think 

Never thought of it like that before! To me, Nao was the Asexual predator of the series~ nao lick 

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Re: Was Haruka Suzushiro homophobic/Anti-Gay/Lesbian? End the debate!

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