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Any possible way for Yukino to defeat Shizuru? [Mai-HiME Episode 23]

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Any possible way for Yukino to defeat Shizuru? [Mai-HiME Episode 23]

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:45 pm

Any possible way for Yukino to defeat Shizuru? [Mai-HiME Episode 23]



---


When Shizuru confronts Harukino (Haruka x Yukino), revealing herself as a HiME, Yukino does the same, summoning her CHILD "Diana, in order to protect Haruka from danger.

Series: Mai-HIME
Episode 23: "Love and Friendship, Heartlessness"
"Aijō to Yūjō, Hijō" (愛情と友情、非情)

---

Part versus, part analysis thread. Looking back at Mai-HiME's 23rd episode where Yukino Kikukawa tried to protect Haruka Suzushiro from Shizuru Fujino's premature rampage. In my opinion, Yukino was defeated because she rushed Diana into battle, unaware that Shizuru never let her guard down the second she pointed her Naginata at HaruKino. If the situation were different, is it possible for Yukino and Diana to defeat the combination of Shizuru and Kiyohime?

Come up with your own scenarios and what-ifs, should it be possible. Yukino is usually named the weakest of the HiME girls, but think really hard now. Does she have ANY chance on who is considered one of the top strongest HiME and if so...how? Discuss, debate and all that fun stuff.

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Re: Any possible way for Yukino to defeat Shizuru? [Mai-HiME Episode 23]

Post by Midori Sugiura on Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:29 pm

There are some ways for her to have won, however they all involve sneak attacks and using conventional weapons as well as her own own abilities

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Re: Any possible way for Yukino to defeat Shizuru? [Mai-HiME Episode 23]

Post by Natsuki-chan on Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:10 am

Maybe she could win against St. Vlas, Harry, Gennai, Yatagarasu, Gakutenou, and even Julia and Duran if she plays her cards right.

But definitely not with Kagutsuchi because it's Mai's child; Kiyohime because Shizuru is more cunning and the stronger her emotions the more powerful her orphan is; Miroku because she won't get past Mikoto; and I'm not sure about the extent of Suishouhime's power (aka Mashiro Kazahana).

And Eclipse 1 Artemis because it's obviously too high to reach... it's in outer space :lol:

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Re: Any possible way for Yukino to defeat Shizuru? [Mai-HiME Episode 23]

Post by IlliterateKoi on Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:52 am

Midori Sugiura wrote:There are some ways for her to have won, however they all involve sneak attacks and using conventional weapons as well as her own own abilities

I agree with this...kinda. I don't think there is any way that Yukino could have won that battle with Shizuru as it was. It was too sudden and she didn't have any time to formulate a plan. Diana isn't a Child that is suited to full on combat, so it was never going to end well.

If, however, Yukino had been given the chance to come up with a strategy, things may have been different, though I'm still doubtful. In any case, it would require Yukino to be doing the majority of the attacking herself, with Diana acting as support. And even then, she would really need to catch Shizuru off guard by launching a sneak attack.

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Re: Any possible way for Yukino to defeat Shizuru? [Mai-HiME Episode 23]

Post by PostoronnimV on Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:52 am

Absolutely yes! =D Diana is the most awesome CHILD with so much potential! I even think, that Yukino and Diana had a good chance of winning the carnival, if Yukino were a more cold-blooded...

As Luu once mentioned:
Luu Sky Sapphire wrote: ... Overall, it's a case of a defeating the HiME and not so much the CHILDs. If anyone had prep time against the HiME, they would know that defeating the CHILD should be the least of their concerns...
And I have always believed and still do, that knowledge (especially, if you know how to use this knowledge to your advantage) - is the true power... And, in this context, Yukino's CHILD is the strongest...

So Yukino could, by using her CHILD, thoroughly examine her opponents, find out their weaknesses and habits, learn their schedule... so she could quietly and easily set up the trap for them+when they least expect, cuz she would know exactly when and where other HiMEs shall be/are ... in the case with Shizuru, Yukino does not even need to fight with her, for example, she could poison Shizuru's tea... and voilà... Shizuru is dead...

Btw, when I watched Mai-Hime for the nth time, I found myself thinking that Diana should have been Natsuki's CHILD, Natsuki could make better use of it potential... and save lots of money on informants=) ... but still... Duran suits Natsuki best... =))

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Re: Any possible way for Yukino to defeat Shizuru? [Mai-HiME Episode 23]

Post by Midori Sugiura on Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:51 am

IlliterateKoi wrote:
Midori Sugiura wrote:There are some ways for her to have won, however they all involve sneak attacks and using conventional weapons as well as her own own abilities

I agree with this...kinda. I don't think there is any way that Yukino could have won that battle with Shizuru as it was. It was too sudden and she didn't have any time to formulate a plan. Diana isn't a Child that is suited to full on combat, so it was never going to end well.

If, however, Yukino had been given the chance to come up with a strategy, things may have been different, though I'm still doubtful. In any case, it would require Yukino to be doing the majority of the attacking herself, with Diana acting as support. And even then, she would really need to catch Shizuru off guard by launching a sneak attack.

I agree, also she'd stand a better chance if she carried some guns

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Re: Any possible way for Yukino to defeat Shizuru? [Mai-HiME Episode 23]

Post by Natsuki-chan on Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:59 am

Yukino's character is meek and gentle, she's not supposed to be "cold-blooded" with a murderous intent. Leave that trait to Shizuru.

Yukino may be knowledgeable, yes. But Shizuru is wise and so cunning. Not to mention a master of naginata, able to destroy the whole First District.

And lastly, Yukino could not have spied on Shizuru plus poison her tea based on schedule during the erratic Carnival. Remember, she was the last HiME to reveal herself only because her MIP was in danger. Yukino is a known HiMe sentai earlier in the series so Shizuru might have been the one monitoring them all along (for the sake of Natsuki) and not the other way around, i.m.o.

Just my two cents in.

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Re: Any possible way for Yukino to defeat Shizuru? [Mai-HiME Episode 23]

Post by IlliterateKoi on Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:15 pm

Natsuki-chan wrote:Yukino's character is meek and gentle, she's not supposed to be "cold-blooded" with a murderous intent.

Very true. I have a hard time believing that Yukino would actually plan out and execute an attack with the intent to kill Shizuru, but if she felt that Haruka's safety was sufficiently threatened that might push her to do so.

I mean, she did try to attack Mai because she thought Haruka was in danger. The attempt failed but it still showed that if she were pushed far enough she would be willing to attack another HiME.

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Re: Any possible way for Yukino to defeat Shizuru? [Mai-HiME Episode 23]

Post by PostoronnimV on Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:59 pm

Natsuki-chan wrote:Yukino's character is meek and gentle, she's not supposed to be "cold-blooded" with a murderous intent.
That's true=) But it was the 'what-if' scenario... and the only way for her to win, imo

Natsuki-chan wrote:And lastly, Yukino could not have spied on Shizuru plus poison her tea based on schedule during the erratic Carnival. Remember, she was the last HiME to reveal herself only because her MIP was in danger.
Again the 'what-if' scenario... Yukino could(but she didn't) calculate/figure out who are all the other HiMEs still in early stages, if she would set herself this goal, because with the capabilities of her ​​CHILD - it is very possible... and, as the saying goes, one who is forewarned is forearmed... so she could neutralize all the other HiMEs even before everything became insanely...

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Re: Any possible way for Yukino to defeat Shizuru? [Mai-HiME Episode 23]

Post by Zweifel Marguerite on Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:14 pm

I will have to agree with PostoronnimV here, Yukino has a great potentional to be a dangerous opponent. Information is indeed the true power. If she had the chance and the will, she could think up strategies for battles like Yuki from Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya.
The problem with Yukino is that she isn't the kind of person to do so. She has quite the nature of a humanist, disliking to hurt anyone and anything. Yukino doesn't really fit in the HiME world, and probably she never wanted to do anything in the Carnival. She only fought when Haruka was in danger.
So, theoretically, it's possible for Yukino to win the battle. However, if we stay true to her personality and character, then no, unfortunately.

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Re: Any possible way for Yukino to defeat Shizuru? [Mai-HiME Episode 23]

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:48 pm

Some fans questioned whether or not Diana is just too frail to take damage of any level. To be fair, it's not so much that Diana was frail. Shizuru's Element (the Naginata) is just too powerful. The cutting power is higher than Nao Yuuki's spinal threads, enough to slice up Julia's legs. You can say it has the same power as Mikoto's casual strikes with Miroku or Fumi's scythe. Whatever the case may be, Diana was thrown into a battle with Shizuru without any strategy. I'd like to call Yukino reckless for not coming up with a plan, but it was meant to save Haruka's life. You can blame the outcome, although I still think Yukino should of fled the scene with Haruka.

Can she beat Shizuru? There are possibilities if Shizuru isn't paying attention. Or if she catches Shizuru by surprise. Natsuki did it in episode 25, although I honestly believe Shizuru was expecting Natsuki by that point. Her reaction came off really "I've been waiting for you." Yukino's approach would have to be quick, easy and painless (lol) because as we've seen from the opening of the Natsuki vs. Shizuru fight from episode 25, Shizuru can materialize that Naginata in seconds. Notice how Diana's tentacles (hentai thoughts anyone?) can go through matter? Rather than a direct approach that failed, Yukino should of summoned Diana directly beneath Shizuru and had her tied up. Shizuru would have to be her Viola counterpart to easily escape the strong grasp of a CHILD. If Shizuru is able to cut her way out, then we have a problem. Glass half full though, I'm confident Yukino can stalemate her with the right timing.

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Re: Any possible way for Yukino to defeat Shizuru? [Mai-HiME Episode 23]

Post by Natsuki-chan on Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:09 am

PostoronnimV wrote:
Again the 'what-if' scenario... Yukino could(but she didn't) calculate/figure out who are all the other HiMEs still in early stages, if she would set herself this goal, because with the capabilities of her ​​CHILD - it is very possible... and, as the saying goes, one who is forewarned is forearmed... so she could neutralize all the other HiMEs even before everything became insanely...

Unknowingly, there were 13 HiMEs instead of the foretold 12. How could Yukino calculate that? Shizuru revealed herself at the last moment, she's the 13th HiME so to speak. If I was Yukino counting 1-12, I wouldn't be expecting a number 13. Again, this is just my argument. (Peace!)

Yukino did attack Mai (take note: a frustrated attempt for a backstab, literally), but it was an epic fail. The supposed plan was thwarted by that kid Mikoto, right? It just didn't work. Maybe it’s Sunrise telling us Yukino’s character is not capable of killing people. Bottomline, she needs to have GUTS to be able to succeed in hurting anyone, or to directly attack a HiME/child. That may be the reason why in Mai-Otome, the spotlight went to Haruka instead and Yukino became the Aries president. Don’t hate me, I honestly like Yukino and it’s good her hands were not blood-stained in the series. But for the sake of the argument at hand, my answer is still “no”.

PS, I like this thread. *winks*


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Re: Any possible way for Yukino to defeat Shizuru? [Mai-HiME Episode 23]

Post by PostoronnimV on Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:39 am

Natsuki-chan wrote:Unknowingly, there were 13 HiMEs instead of the foretold 12. How could Yukino calculate that? Shizuru revealed herself at the last moment, she's the 13th HiME so to speak.
Well... we know, that Shizuru defeated quite a lot of Orphans behind the scenes... so, hypothetically speaking, during those moments Yukino could find out, that Shizuru was the HiME...

Ah, also... If my memory serves me correctly, Shiho was the last one who revealed herself...

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Re: Any possible way for Yukino to defeat Shizuru? [Mai-HiME Episode 23]

Post by Natsuki-chan on Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:35 pm

Eh… no :-) It was Shizuru.. they were kinda “saving the best for last” :-)

Ahaha... but I think I just lost my argument. I did say in my first post Diana could defeat Duran... thus effectively killing Natsuki's MIP = Shizuru. Yes, I think there's a way to defeat Shizuru after all... Shizuru's only weakness = Natsuki.

Yeah, the ShizNat pair is a buy 1 take 1 deal.

There might be no direct way in defeating Shizuru & Kiyohime in combat; but I guess thru indirect way of defeating Natsuki & Duran, there is. And there were so many instances where poor Natsuki is caught off-guard.

But I still believe 6 heads are better than one, or in this case…many tentacles.

KiyoHiME rules!!!

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Re: Any possible way for Yukino to defeat Shizuru? [Mai-HiME Episode 23]

Post by PostoronnimV on Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:23 pm

Natsuki-chan wrote:Ahaha... but I think I just lost my argument. I did say in my first post Diana could defeat Duran... thus effectively killing Natsuki's MIP = Shizuru.
I do not think Diana could defeat any of the CHILDs (Diana is not for 'combat' purposes)... The only way for Yukino to win is to neutralize the HiMEs (and by resorting to dirty tactics)...

And Shizuru can be caught off guard...

For example, here:


or here:


Natsuki-chan wrote: Yes, I think there's a way to defeat Shizuru after all... Shizuru's only weakness = Natsuki.
Somehow it sounds so wrong...

Shizuru has many weaknesses like every other character in Mai-Hime... And Natsuki is not so much her weakness as much as she is her strength (just like Shizuru - for Natsuki)... cuz if not for her feelings for Natsuki, then Kiyohime would not have been so powerful and fearsome...

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Re: Any possible way for Yukino to defeat Shizuru? [Mai-HiME Episode 23]

Post by Midori Sugiura on Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:49 pm

PostoronnimV wrote:
Natsuki-chan wrote:Ahaha... but I think I just lost my argument. I did say in my first post Diana could defeat Duran... thus effectively killing Natsuki's MIP = Shizuru.
I do not think Diana could defeat any of the CHILDs (Diana is not for 'combat' purposes)... The only way for Yukino to win is to neutralize the HiMEs (and by resorting to dirty tactics)...

And Shizuru can be caught off guard...

For example, here:


or here:

Well after the surprise moment is over she is a force of nature killing everything in her her path, also anyone would be taken by surprise if caught when on their own property and trying to take advantage of your one true love and then hearing Haruka yell

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Re: Any possible way for Yukino to defeat Shizuru? [Mai-HiME Episode 23]

Post by Natsuki-chan on Sat Mar 16, 2013 8:47 pm

Hey, both pics involve Natsuki leek

Like I said, Natsuki is her weakness. Her world seems to revolve around Natsuki. She’s her only concern. Put Natsuki in the picture and she’ll be distracted. Right? Right. “Strike where it hurts the most.”

Of course, that’s why Natsuki is Shizuru’s MIP. As much as Natsuki is her weakness, she’s also the source of Kiyohime’s strength. They complement each other you know, thus ShizNat.

“I do not think Diana could defeat any of the CHILDs (Diana is not for 'combat' purposes)... The only way for Yukino to win is to neutralize the HiMEs (and by resorting to dirty tactics)...” It’s a bit contradictory, don’t you think?

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Re: Any possible way for Yukino to defeat Shizuru? [Mai-HiME Episode 23]

Post by PostoronnimV on Sat Mar 16, 2013 10:25 pm

Midori Sugiura wrote:also anyone would be taken by surprise if caught when on their own property and trying to take advantage of your one true love and then hearing Haruka yell
Lol... That's very true=)

Natsuki-chan wrote:Like I said, Natsuki is her weakness. Her world seems to revolve around Natsuki. She’s her only concern. Put Natsuki in the picture and she’ll be distracted. Right? Right.
Well, in this matter our opinions differ... =)

Natsuki-chan wrote:“I do not think Diana could defeat any of the CHILDs (Diana is not for 'combat' purposes)... The only way for Yukino to win is to neutralize the HiMEs (and by resorting to dirty tactics)...” It’s a bit contradictory, don’t you think?
Err... No, I don't think so... In order to win, Yukino did not need to destroy the CHILDs... she could just kill the HiMEs, who are made ​​of flesh and blood...

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Re: Any possible way for Yukino to defeat Shizuru? [Mai-HiME Episode 23]

Post by Natsuki-chan on Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:19 pm

If you really believe Yukino's personality could readily attack and kill an unsuspecting person, I rest my case :-p

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Re: Any possible way for Yukino to defeat Shizuru? [Mai-HiME Episode 23]

Post by PostoronnimV on Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:58 am

Anyone can, if were pushed far enough... Though with Yukino's personality, she, most likely, would have broke down mentally under the pressure of guilt after the first killing... and would not be able to continue on...

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Re: Any possible way for Yukino to defeat Shizuru? [Mai-HiME Episode 23]

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:55 pm

PostoronnimV wrote:Anyone can, if were pushed far enough... Though with Yukino's personality, she, most likely, would have broke down mentally under the pressure of guilt after the first killing... and would not be able to continue on...

I agree. :) Yukino is highly emotional in general, a perfect candidate to snap. By that point, Shizuru's life won't be worth spit. As proven earlier, Shizuru can be taken by surprise. Even if Yukino can't beat Shizuru in the long run, it's fact that she can still put a dent in the Kaichou.

Just don't go toe to toe with Fujino, it's a big mistake if you're not a Mai or a Mikoto.

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Re: Any possible way for Yukino to defeat Shizuru? [Mai-HiME Episode 23]

Post by CaptainVonCookie on Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:33 am

Everything is possible, you just need to get creative with your methods! I can think of a couple ways Yukino could have defeated Shizuru and any other character. However, it would have had disastrous consequences to her psyche and damaged her relationship with Haruka beyond repair.

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Re: Any possible way for Yukino to defeat Shizuru? [Mai-HiME Episode 23]

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:34 pm

CaptainVonCookie wrote:Everything is possible

If you just believe. Gay Rainbow

CaptainVonCookie wrote:you just need to get creative with your methods! I can think of a couple ways Yukino could have defeated Shizuru and any other character. However, it would have had disastrous consequences to her psyche and damaged her relationship with Haruka beyond repair.

To follow up on this, I hope none of you bring up the "what Haruka doesn't know won't hurt anyone" rebuttal. Yukino kind of sucks at hiding her true feelings, yet alone motives. You can read that girl like a book. Nothing Yukino goes through will get by Haruka forever, give the loud executive director some credit. =p

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Re: Any possible way for Yukino to defeat Shizuru? [Mai-HiME Episode 23]

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