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Behind the infamous teahouse door scene - What do YOU think what happened?

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Did Shizuru really rape and/or touch the sleeping Natsuki?

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Total Votes : 29

Behind the infamous teahouse door scene - What do YOU think what happened?

Post by Kuga Natsuki on Tue Jan 08, 2013 10:58 pm


I know, another topic about a certain sliding door seeing all the action :'3 Feel free to debate, but don't argue ^_^ I'm just curious to see everyone's opinions about the teahouse scene :3

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Re: Behind the infamous teahouse door scene - What do YOU think what happened?

Post by Cheshire Kat on Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:11 pm

It was definitely assault. Natsuki wasn't awake and therefore couldn't give consent. It's a disgusting scene, a disgusting idea, and it shouldn't have been used as a plot device. The same goes for Yukariko's impregnation. Those ideas should've been shoved down a garbage chute or more preferably- an incinerator that burns at 4000 degrees kelvin.

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Re: Behind the infamous teahouse door scene - What do YOU think what happened?

Post by Kuga Natsuki on Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:49 pm

To each of their own

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Re: Behind the infamous teahouse door scene - What do YOU think what happened?

Post by depression76 on Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:04 pm

Now now guys, lets play nice Razz

Tho yea, I have agree with Kat about the teahouse scene. When I first watch HiME I can't stand the scene myself and skipped it. Sure, some may say it's a good flavor to add to the Shiznat concoction, but to some (me included) it's bad taste ^^;;.

That's probably why, my filtered brain think that what they might be doin right behind the door was prolly Natsuki sleepin and Shizuru strippin to change into pajamas before gettin in to bed with her xDDD

On Yukariko's end on the other hand...orz

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Re: Behind the infamous teahouse door scene - What do YOU think what happened?

Post by *BlackRose* on Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:25 pm

I don't think shizuru really had it in her to actually rape Natsuki but maybe she just laid beside her or on her without cloths and maybe kissed her a few times but rape no I just can't image that Shizuru could do that to Natsuki she even said sorry before she kissed her and before yukino showed up I can understand if she wanted her bare skin on Natsuki just to pretend that they were together and Natsuki did love her the same or just to see what it would fill like to have Natsuki in her arms for she thought that her love was unspeakable and would never happen that if Natsuki found out she would hate her for ever the one thing that made her happy
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so there is mah opinion on this matter Shizuru Fujino

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Re: Behind the infamous teahouse door scene - What do YOU think what happened?

Post by Magus Phantalus on Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:50 pm

*BlackRose* wrote:I don't think shizuru really had it in her to actually rape Natsuki but maybe she just laid beside her or on her without cloths and maybe kissed her a few times but rape no I just can't image that Shizuru could do that to Natsuki she even said sorry before she kissed her and before yukino showed up I can understand if she wanted her bare skin on Natsuki just to pretend that they were together and Natsuki did love her the same or just to see what it would fill like to have Natsuki in her arms for she thought that her love was unspeakable and would never happen that if Natsuki found out she would hate her for ever the one thing that made her happy
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
so there is mah opinion on this matter Shizuru Fujino

I agree with this Shizuru was desperate, ashamed, and in obscene amounts of pain given her knowledge of the carnival. I think she was desperate for some form of skin to skin contact so that for a brief moment she could pretend that there was no canrival no hime and that she was with Natsuki.

That said it is still a terrible and ugly betrayal of trust that should not be condoned. As much as I love Shiznat and Shizuru the only reason she gets a pass from me is because of how crazy EVERYONE went during the carnival and how everyone is forgiven at the end... kinda.

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Re: Behind the infamous teahouse door scene - What do YOU think what happened?

Post by Kuga Natsuki on Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:13 pm

I think I'm the only one in the forum who actually understands Shizuru's situation and actually forgives her for her actions towards Natsuki Razz

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Re: Behind the infamous teahouse door scene - What do YOU think what happened?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:52 pm

Nymphetamine wrote:I think I'm the only one in the forum who actually understands Shizuru's situation and actually forgives her for her actions towards Natsuki Razz

*ahem* V

http://shiznat.webs.com/whyshiznat.htm



And I haven't even had my say yet. Razz Kat has a right to think Shizuru crossed the line. That scene itself is left up to interpretation. My opinion? Shizuru slept with Natsuki at best. She didn't try anything beyond that. But we'll never know, will we? Yukino claims she saw the whole thing and never goes into detail. I don't believe Shizuru completely snapped yet like she did during the confrontation with Haruka and Yukino after the fact. Yes, she was in murder mode during the scuffle with Nao, but she remained level headed afterward. To be honest, Shizuru could of sexually assaulted Natsuki any time she wanted. Duran wasn't responding and Natsuki was at her most vulnerable. I'd like to believe that Shizuru still had control; enough to justify not doing anything sick.

From a visual standpoint, the scene is delicious. Shizuru disrobing herself is iconic imagery for ShizNat fandom, whether you hate the story true behind it or not.

I have no defense for Ishigami x Yukariko thing though. Ishigami took advantage of a kind and defenseless (in character) woman. At the very least, Shizuru deceived the audience who dislikes her into thinking she was a good friend to Natsuki before the teahouse scene. Ishigami was a creeper and a villain from the start. He should of stayed dead along with his First District buddies.

However, even if a character like Ishigami is a sack of shit, he's in our fandom and I'll promote him. :) ShizNat, Ishigami, Tomoe, Nagi, *insert character or ship that has a dislike somewhere*, they all bring asses to the seats in their own way.

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When Shizuru said "Ara" for the first time, the "Ara" broke into a thousand pieces and they all went skipping about. That was the beginning of fairies.

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Re: Behind the infamous teahouse door scene - What do YOU think what happened?

Post by *BlackRose* on Wed Jan 09, 2013 9:57 pm

Nymphetamine wrote:I think I'm the only one in the forum who actually understands Shizuru's situation and actually forgives her for her actions towards Natsuki Razz
I forgive Shizuru for whats she's done completely :3

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Re: Behind the infamous teahouse door scene - What do YOU think what happened?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:02 pm

*BlackRose* wrote:
Nymphetamine wrote:I think I'm the only one in the forum who actually understands Shizuru's situation and actually forgives her for her actions towards Natsuki Razz
I forgive Shizuru for whats she's done completely :3

ONLY if you buy "Kanin na"



^ You know how in Puella Magi Madoka Magica, if you're offended by character-I-shall-not-name's death in episode 3, you won't like the rest of the series? Same logic applies here. Shizuru's cutesy apology will decide whether you love or hate Shizuru forever. Depends on your reaction.

I learned towards the love since her crying scene before was touching and honest to me.

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When Shizuru said "Ara" for the first time, the "Ara" broke into a thousand pieces and they all went skipping about. That was the beginning of fairies.

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Re: Behind the infamous teahouse door scene - What do YOU think what happened?

Post by *BlackRose* on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:46 pm

How could I not love that face she made when she apologize XD

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Re: Behind the infamous teahouse door scene - What do YOU think what happened?

Post by Cheshire Kat on Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:57 pm

Ahhhh guys I really want to add some extra thoughts I had in the past couple hours as to why I'm so against that entire scene and Shizuru being forgiven easily. I'll put it under a spoiler so you can choose whether or not to read it, since it might be a little jumbled and I'm a party pooper. But I really do have to get my thoughts and points out here.

Spoiler:

Okay. So in all honesty, I'm totally all for people shipping ShizNat in a positive light. I used to actually ship these two and I loved it. However. Once I got to the scene where all this happens, the sleeping kiss and the manor door scene, I was so turned-off and frightened(yes, frightened) by what Shizuru had done.

The thing is, Natsuki was already in a physically and emotionally weak state by the time this was happening. She just got the down-lo from John Smith and gotten the shit beaten out of her in the motorbike crash. Shizuru saved her, blah blah blah, everything was good and happy and Natsuki even got to pet a puppy. That's when things got creepy.

Now, when you're asleep, you can't give consent; obviously. So Shizuru kissing Natsuki in her sleep was already a form of sexual assault. Natsuki doesn't know, keep it on the hush-hush. Everything will be okay, she won't have to find out.

Fast forward to later that evening when Shizuru disrobed and got down on top of Natsuki, presumably naked or at least scantly-clad. No one can deny from the movement in the shadows that some touchy-touch was going on there; Shizuru shifting down Natsuki's body. This is sexual assault. Shizuru, whether she raped Natsuki or not, still molested and violated her personal space while Natsuki was sleeping and could not give consent OR retaliate. What's even worse is that Natsuki trusted Shizuru to protect and care for her while she was recovering, and Shizuru let that hot bother in her pants do the thinking for her. Twice.

That is no excuse to use a friend's trust against them and freaking molest them in their sleep. Nothing, absolutely nothing, excuses that. I wouldn't wish such a violation upon the person I hate. This scene is offputting and I was angry as all hell when Shizuru got the sudden forgiveness. And in all honesty? The only reason I think Natsuki lets Shizuru near her is because she's afraid of Shizuru and she'd feel guilty if she didn't. Shizuru is amazing at putting on the 'poor little me' act and Natsuki is a huge softy. Shizuru was a likeable character at first, and then SUNRISE pulled a fast one.

There. I'm done spitting venom. For now. :D

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Re: Behind the infamous teahouse door scene - What do YOU think what happened?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:20 am

Past couple of posts split from main topic and into the The "I won't be here for a while" and "I'm back!" -Thread. You may continue there in a civilized matter or not at all.

Shizuru was a likeable character at first, and then SUNRISE pulled a fast one.

A feat they excel at.



What a shitload of fack. Akira Okuzaki

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The law of physics: Whenever there's this much gay in one room, Shizuru manifests!
When Shizuru said "Ara" for the first time, the "Ara" broke into a thousand pieces and they all went skipping about. That was the beginning of fairies.

Luu Sky Sapphire
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Re: Behind the infamous teahouse door scene - What do YOU think what happened?

Post by Magus Phantalus on Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:41 pm

Cheshire Kat wrote:Ahhhh guys I really want to add some extra thoughts I had in the past couple hours as to why I'm so against that entire scene and Shizuru being forgiven easily. I'll put it under a spoiler so you can choose whether or not to read it, since it might be a little jumbled and I'm a party pooper. But I really do have to get my thoughts and points out here.

Spoiler:

Okay. So in all honesty, I'm totally all for people shipping ShizNat in a positive light. I used to actually ship these two and I loved it. However. Once I got to the scene where all this happens, the sleeping kiss and the manor door scene, I was so turned-off and frightened(yes, frightened) by what Shizuru had done.

The thing is, Natsuki was already in a physically and emotionally weak state by the time this was happening. She just got the down-lo from John Smith and gotten the shit beaten out of her in the motorbike crash. Shizuru saved her, blah blah blah, everything was good and happy and Natsuki even got to pet a puppy. That's when things got creepy.

Now, when you're asleep, you can't give consent; obviously. So Shizuru kissing Natsuki in her sleep was already a form of sexual assault. Natsuki doesn't know, keep it on the hush-hush. Everything will be okay, she won't have to find out.

Fast forward to later that evening when Shizuru disrobed and got down on top of Natsuki, presumably naked or at least scantly-clad. No one can deny from the movement in the shadows that some touchy-touch was going on there; Shizuru shifting down Natsuki's body. This is sexual assault. Shizuru, whether she raped Natsuki or not, still molested and violated her personal space while Natsuki was sleeping and could not give consent OR retaliate. What's even worse is that Natsuki trusted Shizuru to protect and care for her while she was recovering, and Shizuru let that hot bother in her pants do the thinking for her. Twice.

That is no excuse to use a friend's trust against them and freaking molest them in their sleep. Nothing, absolutely nothing, excuses that. I wouldn't wish such a violation upon the person I hate. This scene is offputting and I was angry as all hell when Shizuru got the sudden forgiveness. And in all honesty? The only reason I think Natsuki lets Shizuru near her is because she's afraid of Shizuru and she'd feel guilty if she didn't. Shizuru is amazing at putting on the 'poor little me' act and Natsuki is a huge softy. Shizuru was a likeable character at first, and then SUNRISE pulled a fast one.

There. I'm done spitting venom. For now. :D

As I've said before one can't forgive the others for their attempted murders and in some cases murders and not forgive Shizuru. The scene in question is also ambiguous especially since the source, Yukino has her own agenda. People tend to forget that cute and quite Yukino did try to kill Mai. It is entirely possible the entire scene was imagined given that Natsuki's position in the scene is reveresed when compared to the scene where she and Shizuru say they "like" each other and Shizuru contemplates that her "like" is different.

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Re: Behind the infamous teahouse door scene - What do YOU think what happened?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:53 pm

Now that you mention it, the silhouette scene wasn't really something Yukino DVR'ed and played back for everyone to see. Natsuki was listening to Yukino and probably cooked up something with her own imagination. We can all relate to imagining the worst case scenario in dramatic situations.

Good call, Mag. You may now destroy the universe. Again. Akira Okuzaki

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The law of physics: Whenever there's this much gay in one room, Shizuru manifests!
When Shizuru said "Ara" for the first time, the "Ara" broke into a thousand pieces and they all went skipping about. That was the beginning of fairies.

Luu Sky Sapphire
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Re: Behind the infamous teahouse door scene - What do YOU think what happened?

Post by Magus Phantalus on Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:01 pm

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:

Good call, Mag. You may now destroy the universe. Again. Akira Okuzaki

You have know idea of the smile that appeared on my face upon reading this. Mikoto Minagi

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Re: Behind the infamous teahouse door scene - What do YOU think what happened?

Post by Kuga Natsuki on Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:45 pm

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:Now that you mention it, the silhouette scene wasn't really something Yukino DVR'ed and played back for everyone to see. Natsuki was listening to Yukino and probably cooked up something with her own imagination. We can all relate to imagining the worst case scenario in dramatic situations.

That's what I've been saying ever since I joined the forum Akira Okuzaki

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Re: Behind the infamous teahouse door scene - What do YOU think what happened?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Thu Jan 10, 2013 3:50 pm

Nymphetamine wrote:That's what I've been saying ever since I joined the forum Akira Okuzaki

Well, maybe if you took off that ninja mask and quit the art of invisibility, we would of noticed sooner.

Trollface

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The law of physics: Whenever there's this much gay in one room, Shizuru manifests!
When Shizuru said "Ara" for the first time, the "Ara" broke into a thousand pieces and they all went skipping about. That was the beginning of fairies.

Luu Sky Sapphire
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Re: Behind the infamous teahouse door scene - What do YOU think what happened?

Post by *BlackRose* on Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:57 pm

damn sunrise never gives us a straight answer

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Re: Behind the infamous teahouse door scene - What do YOU think what happened?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Thu Jan 10, 2013 8:59 pm

*BlackRose* wrote:damn sunrise never gives us a straight answer

Shizuru Kaichou : That's because we're not straight~

XD Oh Kaichou, that's just bad.

Shizuru Kaichou : Fufufu~

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The law of physics: Whenever there's this much gay in one room, Shizuru manifests!
When Shizuru said "Ara" for the first time, the "Ara" broke into a thousand pieces and they all went skipping about. That was the beginning of fairies.

Luu Sky Sapphire
Administrator. The Showstopper. The Headliner. The Main Event. The Icon. Mr. Mai-Series.
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Re: Behind the infamous teahouse door scene - What do YOU think what happened?

Post by *BlackRose* on Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:07 pm

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:
*BlackRose* wrote:damn sunrise never gives us a straight answer

Shizuru Kaichou : That's because we're not straight~

XD Oh Kaichou, that's just bad.

Shizuru Kaichou : Fufufu~
hush Shizuru you know what I meant Natsuki Kuga

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Re: Behind the infamous teahouse door scene - What do YOU think what happened?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:09 pm

Shizuru Kaichou : No eye didn't~

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The law of physics: Whenever there's this much gay in one room, Shizuru manifests!
When Shizuru said "Ara" for the first time, the "Ara" broke into a thousand pieces and they all went skipping about. That was the beginning of fairies.

Luu Sky Sapphire
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Re: Behind the infamous teahouse door scene - What do YOU think what happened?

Post by *BlackRose* on Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:22 pm

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote: Shizuru Kaichou : No eye didn't~
yes you did (thinks for a second) am I being trolled by shizuru >.>;

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Re: Behind the infamous teahouse door scene - What do YOU think what happened?

Post by Kuga Natsuki on Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:06 pm

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:
*BlackRose* wrote:
Nymphetamine wrote:I think I'm the only one in the forum who actually understands Shizuru's situation and actually forgives her for her actions towards Natsuki Razz
I forgive Shizuru for whats she's done completely :3

ONLY if you buy "Kanin na"



I think only Nao didn't buy that face nao lick



nao lick : So not cute...

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Re: Behind the infamous teahouse door scene - What do YOU think what happened?

Post by IlliterateKoi on Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:04 pm

I wouldn't buy that face if I were Nao either. It's not exactly an apology that says 'I am sincerely sorry for killing your mother' is it? Razz

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Re: Behind the infamous teahouse door scene - What do YOU think what happened?

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