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Would you forgive Shizuru? *spoilers*

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Would you forgive Shizuru? *spoilers*

Post by GAP on Sun Dec 02, 2012 5:35 pm

Sometimes its very difficult to forgive someone and in some cases you will never forgive the person you wronged but with that said, is anyone here willing to forgive Shizuru for what happened in Hime?

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Re: Would you forgive Shizuru? *spoilers*

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:36 pm

I am. She committed mass genocide on a group of people who deserved it. This is easily forgivable. Her actions against fellow HiME, however, were not. She planned on defeating all the HiME and admits this to Natsuki's face. Nothing deep within her called out to her brain and said "This is wrong...what might Natsuki think?"

We are happy with the eventual results where Shizuru realized what she had done in episode 26. If Natsuki can forgive her, so can we. We were all in love at some point in our lives, we act impulsively for someone we love deeply. Even if that means the death of anyone who's a threat to her. Not saying we all feel like this, but we're all different. We handle situations differently. Shizuru tried it her way and she was clearly in the wrong.

It's a serious eye opener for the character. If Shizuru were willing to kill more people after the events of Episode 26, then you'd have an argument. Last time we saw her, the only way she could extract her pain and anguish from the Carnival arc, was to toy around with Reito.

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Re: Would you forgive Shizuru? *spoilers*

Post by Kuga Natsuki on Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:35 pm

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:Her actions against fellow HiME, however, were not. She planned on defeating all the HiME and admits this to Natsuki's face.
An easy argument to that that one is supposed to defeat all the other HiME; HOWEVER, Shizuru's reaction on what she has done, then that's a big problem, but at least Yukino couldn't spy and Nao couldn't constantly kidnap Natsuki anymore. Let's face it, a lot of the HiME had faults as well, even Nao. Her losing her eye was an accident, iirc, and I found it unnecessary for her to go on her own rampage and physically destroy other HiME, even Natsuki.

It seems like a lose-lose/win-win situation. If the other HiME got away for their actions in the end, Shizuru should, too. After all, the HiME WERE supposed to fight each other, and since Mashiro brought everyone back to life, I think everyone deserved to be forgiven, since everything went back to normal and there was a happy ending.

As Luu said, we act impulsively to people we love deeply. Also sometimes it's hard for someone to NOT forgive someone else they love as well. Even I experienced that, but not on the HiME level, since that's impossible Natsuki Kruger2 And let's not forget that Kruger forgave Viola in Otome as well. I think it'd be a bit selfish for Natsuki to not forgive Shizuru and simply walk away, not giving her another chance. Natsuki understood what was going on in Shizuru's mind, the bright side, at least, and that was the reason why Shizuru was forgiven. Natsuki forgave her for Shizuru's sake

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Re: Would you forgive Shizuru? *spoilers*

Post by Natsuki-chan on Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:56 pm

Definitely.

It was Yukino's fault for spying on Shizuru & Natsuki that triggered Haruka's demise. If both of them weren't in the scene, peeping, Diana wouldn't have been defeated.

It was Nao's fault for trying to harm Natsuki. If only she didn't lay a finger on Natsuki, Shizuru would not bother to hunt her down thus Julia wouldn't have been defeated.


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Re: Would you forgive Shizuru? *spoilers*

Post by Kuga Natsuki on Fri Dec 14, 2012 12:51 am

Natsuki-chan wrote:Definitely.

It was Yukino's fault for spying on Shizuru & Natsuki that triggered Haruka's demise. If both of them weren't in the scene, peeping, Diana wouldn't have been defeated.

It was Nao's fault for trying to harm Natsuki. If only she didn't lay a finger on Natsuki, Shizuru would not bother to hunt her down thus Julia wouldn't have been defeated.

Good point. Personally, every HiME had faults, one way or another, and they all forgave each other, since becoming a HiME wasn't their idea in the first place. Blame the Obsidian Lord! :twisted: Everyone goes insane when stressed, depressed, going through way too many things in life way too fast; something's gotta snap!

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Re: Would you forgive Shizuru? *spoilers*

Post by Natsuki-chan on Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:00 am

Nymphetamine wrote:
Blame the Obsidian Lord! :twisted:

Eh?? But... I wouldn't dare. Heh~heh~

And besides, I believe that's already been taken cared of:




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Re: Would you forgive Shizuru? *spoilers*

Post by Grawrr on Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:08 am

I would in a heartbeat. No, it's not cause she's my favorite character. =P

In the lovely Kaichou's defense, she stayed out of the fight for quite some time. It wasn't until Mai went berserk that she intervened, and she only pushed Mai's child back. She didn't try to kill her, or the other HiME there. Shizuru only attacked Nao at the cliff because she was protecting her precious person, you can't expect her to sit back and watch. Now to the trust breaking scene. Shizuru appears to be perfect but she's not, she has her flaws just like everyone else. She's human and has limits to how much she can take emotionally. Yukino with her comments backed her into a corner, making her feel trapped and threatened. In a Mai HiME drama CD I can't recall which one, she stated how twisted her love is. Just the thought of Natsuki finding out terrified her, so she summon her Naginata. To make matters worse Natsuki over heard everything, causing what little sanity she had left to snap. If I'm not mistaken it was Nagi who told Shizuru about District One. In her state of mind, everything that threatens Natsuki must parish. Regrading Nao, you can't expect to attack Natsuki and get away it. However, the almost killing of Nao, was taking it too far. Her child was gone, so there's no need to kill her, but in Shizuru's state of mind all logic goes out the window.

She's not the only one who attacked other HiME, the others are just as guilty, though they didn't mass murder a bunch of people.. Not the point! I can't really fault her or any HiME for attacking each other. The fear of losing the one you love most is a terrifying thought. It causes people to act impulsively. When she came back to life she didn't attack the HiME, she knew what she did wasn't right. Also in the events after episode 26, you didn't see her throwing scalding tea on them.

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Re: Would you forgive Shizuru? *spoilers*

Post by Kuga Natsuki on Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:25 am

Grawrr wrote:Also in the events after episode 26, you didn't see her throwing scalding tea on them.
XD

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Re: Would you forgive Shizuru? *spoilers*

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:49 am

Nobody in that position would be in the right state of mind. Shizuru acted only upon the behalf of Natsuki's protection. Things got out of hand to the point where Natsuki herself had to step in and stop her. It made sense that Natsuki battled Shizuru instead of a Mikoto/Shizuru or Mai/Shizuru confrontation. It worked for the story to have the imperfect lone wolf to take on the misguided woman who loves her.

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When Shizuru said "Ara" for the first time, the "Ara" broke into a thousand pieces and they all went skipping about. That was the beginning of fairies.

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Re: Would you forgive Shizuru? *spoilers*

Post by Grawrr on Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:05 am

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:Nobody in that position would be in the right state of mind. Shizuru acted only upon the behalf of Natsuki's protection. Things got out of hand to the point where Natsuki herself had to step in and stop her. It made sense that Natsuki battled Shizuru instead of a Mikoto/Shizuru or Mai/Shizuru confrontation. It worked for the story to have the imperfect lone wolf to take on the misguided woman who loves her.

Once again I concur. If Mai or Mikoto battled Shizuru instead I wouldn't have been happy with that. It'd be awesome to see Mai and Shizuru battle but it's not their place. It just had to be Natsuki.

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Re: Would you forgive Shizuru? *spoilers*

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:52 pm

Grawrr wrote:
Once again I concur. If Mai or Mikoto battled Shizuru instead I wouldn't have been happy with that. It'd be awesome to see Mai and Shizuru battle but it's not their place. It just had to be Natsuki.

There are many threads around here that discuss the possibility of Mai vs. Shizuru. What I consider the biggest dream match for the Mai-HiME universe. Sadly that match just couldn't happen. Natsuki was the right HiME for the job and the results tickled our ShizNat senses forever~ Even though I was convinced about their relationship way before that.

Going to someone only to seek help and tell your deepest darkest secrets and fears? It's like Shizuru and Natsuki were dating all this time anyway! XD

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When Shizuru said "Ara" for the first time, the "Ara" broke into a thousand pieces and they all went skipping about. That was the beginning of fairies.

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Re: Would you forgive Shizuru? *spoilers*

Post by Grawrr on Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:51 pm

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:There are many threads around here that discuss the possibility of Mai vs. Shizuru. What I consider the biggest dream match for the Mai-HiME universe. Sadly that match just couldn't happen. Natsuki was the right HiME for the job and the results tickled our ShizNat senses forever~ Even though I was convinced about their relationship way before that.

Going to someone only to seek help and tell your deepest darkest secrets and fears? It's like Shizuru and Natsuki were dating all this time anyway! XD

It would've been so amazing to see! kawaiidesuplz On youtube there is a AMV out there that tries to make that battle happen. It left me wanting more! I, too was convinced of their relationship before that scene, my ShizNat senses were tingling.

*Le Gasp* Maybe they were! How dare they hide it from us!

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Re: Would you forgive Shizuru? *spoilers*

Post by Magus Phantalus on Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:13 am

I would forgive Shizuru in a heartbeat. People who rag on Shizuru tend to forget that Mai almost killed Mikoto in rage and Yukino almost killed Mai out of fear. Some would say the almost is a pretty big deal but one must ask which should be punished intent or action and if one is capable fo forgiveing Mai and Yukino's intent one should be able to forgive Shizuru's actions especially since some of her victims were revived.

Some of Shizuru's victims(the First District) are exempt from this because they were evil pricks who knew what they were getting into. They were also mooching in on the Magus' territory!

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Re: Would you forgive Shizuru? *spoilers*

Post by Kuga Natsuki on Tue Dec 18, 2012 12:51 am

Magus Phantalus wrote:
Some of Shizuru's victims(the First District) are exempt from this because they were evil pricks who knew what they were getting into. They were also mooching in on the Magus' territory!
I had someone complain to me one time that Shizuru is a murderer because of her destroying District 1, but they forget that, like you said, they were evil pricks. I even saw people ranting how Shizuru should've gotten arrested, but they, again, forget that no one knows anything about the HiME, so the police can't do shit about what Shizuru has done (among the other HiME as well). People seem to overestimate the entire show, and it is bothersome a bit Nina Wang To each of their own

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Re: Would you forgive Shizuru? *spoilers*

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Tue Dec 18, 2012 6:58 pm

The biggest and most common critique about Mai-HiME is that there's a happy ending. I've rarely heard the Shizuru is a murderer complaint until *I* brought it up. Not because I firmly believed in it, all I wanted to do was tickle some brains. Maybe I just think outside the box better than most people. makoto

Whatever the case, Mr. "I OWN THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE SIMPLY BECAUSE I AM LORD MAGUS! MUAHAHAHAHAHA" made a very good point. When Yukino and Mai were in murder mode, why didn't anyone complain about them? Why do they get a free pass and Shizuru doesn't?

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When Shizuru said "Ara" for the first time, the "Ara" broke into a thousand pieces and they all went skipping about. That was the beginning of fairies.

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Re: Would you forgive Shizuru? *spoilers*

Post by Kuga Natsuki on Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:23 pm

I guess more people hate Fujino because of her lesbianism and whatnot. In America, anyway, so they come up with weirdass excuses *seen a few* Akira Okuzaki

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Re: Would you forgive Shizuru? *spoilers*

Post by IlliterateKoi on Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:59 pm

But, just because they were bad people does it make it okay to kill them? Really that's just stooping to their level. Two wrongs don't make a right and all that crap.

As for why the others get a free pass and Shizuru doesn't - I've noticed that, generally speaking, the people who give Shizuru flack for being a 'murderer' are also the ones who believe that she is a rapist. While I don't believe that she is, if I did I would most likely call her a murderer too. That scene in the tea house is the main cause of people not liking Shizuru, in my opinion.

A completely unrelated point - I misspelled 'crap' as 'carp' and was very much tempted to leave it that way >_>;

Edit: Also, I should probably point out that what I said in the first paragraph is not necessarily my own thoughts on the matter, just my way of prodding your brains some more ;D

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Re: Would you forgive Shizuru? *spoilers*

Post by Kuga Natsuki on Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:15 pm

To spoil the debate: It's just a cartoon ;D They stump logic on many levels rei hino

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Re: Would you forgive Shizuru? *spoilers*

Post by Magus Phantalus on Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:16 am

IlliterateKoi wrote:But, just because they were bad people does it make it okay to kill them? Really that's just stooping to their level. Two wrongs don't make a right and all that crap.

There is no right answer one can only make a decision and move foward with no regrets. As a Magus my desire for omnicide stems from such a decision.

And for the last time Luu I want to DESTROY EVERY UNIVERSE NOT RULE THEM! There is a key diffrence!

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Re: Would you forgive Shizuru? *spoilers*

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Thu Dec 20, 2012 7:35 pm

Nymphetamine wrote:To spoil the debate: It's just a cartoon ;D They stump logic on many levels rei hino

Mai-HiME is NOT a cartoon. :) Dragon Ball Z is.

Mai-HiME/Otome are masterpieces we cherish and adore. Like what Star Wars meant to fans BEFORE the dreaded prequels.

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When Shizuru said "Ara" for the first time, the "Ara" broke into a thousand pieces and they all went skipping about. That was the beginning of fairies.

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Re: Would you forgive Shizuru? *spoilers*

Post by Magus Phantalus on Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:16 pm

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:
Nymphetamine wrote:To spoil the debate: It's just a cartoon ;D They stump logic on many levels rei hino

Mai-HiME is NOT a cartoon. :) Dragon Ball Z is.

Mai-HiME/Otome are masterpieces we cherish and adore. Like what Star Wars meant to fans BEFORE the dreaded prequels.

Or before what Lucas did to General Grievous because he didn't like him or before it became horribly homophobic or before all darkside users where horribly evil even though the most powerful force users used both light AND dark. Or(goes off on a rant)...

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Re: Would you forgive Shizuru? *spoilers*

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Fri Dec 21, 2012 12:05 pm

Magus Phantalus wrote:Or before what Lucas did to General Grievous because he didn't like him or before it became horribly homophobic or before all darkside users where horribly evil even though the most powerful force users used both light AND dark. Or(goes off on a rant)...

I only follow the Original Trilogy. Thanks to Lucas, the Force is not longer a spiritual phenomenon. It's science.

Akira Okuzaki Fail.

At least Sunrise never tinkered with the Mai-Series to such a degree where they shit on what was already established in Mai-HiME.

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When Shizuru said "Ara" for the first time, the "Ara" broke into a thousand pieces and they all went skipping about. That was the beginning of fairies.

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Re: Would you forgive Shizuru? *spoilers*

Post by GAP on Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:32 pm

The prequels were terrible but I do like Mai Hime and I do like Shizuru and Natsuki likes Shizuru.

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Re: Would you forgive Shizuru? *spoilers*

Post by Magus Phantalus on Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:52 pm

It's nice to see you posting again GAP maybe its just me but its been forever since I saw a post from you. Your threads always offer food for thought.

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Re: Would you forgive Shizuru? *spoilers*

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:10 pm

Magus Phantalus wrote:Your threads always offer food for thought.

Not to mention run-on sentences. :) j/k

I don't mind the back stories done in Mai-Otome. The flashbacks and what was said in S.ifr are nicely structured compared to the Star Wars prequels.

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The law of physics: Whenever there's this much gay in one room, Shizuru manifests!
When Shizuru said "Ara" for the first time, the "Ara" broke into a thousand pieces and they all went skipping about. That was the beginning of fairies.

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