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Who's love was greater? Natsuki or Shizuru?5511

Who's love was greater? Natsuki or Shizuru?

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Who's love was greater? Natsuki or Shizuru?

Post by Dead.And.Alive on Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:09 pm

So, I was thinking: Who loved the other more? Natsuki or Shizuru?
Yes we probably all think 'Well isn't it obvious? Shizuru of course.' or maybe not, might just be some. Maybe they even loved each other equally, that's your choice really.

I mean, if you think about it, Natsuki unknowingly loved Shizuru since she met her just as she did to Natsuki. First she gave her the little faith she had, learned to trust her, then was violated (so we think) by her while still forgiving her and then shot Kiyohime. Yes she did stop her from anymore rampaging, and to help end the HiME Festival, but in a sense I got that Natsuki no longer wanted Shizuru commit anymore wrong doings. Especially not for someone like her (since she's always downgrading herself...).That and I'm pretty sure Natsuki was straight up until the point that she realized how she felt about Shizuru. Natsuki's love was what I call pure.

Shizuru on the other hand obviously loved Natsuki in a way most can't. I mean, she even went on a killing spree and temporarily lost her sanity for the girl. Just wanting to eliminate all of her so called "troubles" and anything that was unpleasant to her. Plus the fact that she knew she loved Natsuki, but didn't show it because she knew that keeping a distance was best. Really she just wanted to protect what she claimed hers. As to what I said about Natsuki's "pure" love, Shizuru's might be a full fledged emotion but it was full of desire (thus it being impure). She didn't exactly think about what Natsuki, simply making herself selfish like I've stated elsewhere.

Maybe I'm might just be over analyzing this, maybe not. I'm just curious to whether or not people think the same. Anyway, all in all, I think Natsuki surpasses Shizuru in this aspect.


Last edited by Dead.And.Alive on Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:35 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Who's love was greater? Natsuki or Shizuru?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:03 pm

Natsuki Kuga's love was stronger. Not to say Shizuru's was weaker, it was arguably just as strong to fall deeply in love with Natsuki because of how she made her feel. A woman's heart is precious. I just happen to give Natsuki extra point for being a forgiving person in the end. When you know a close friend slept naked with you, THINK she has done lord-knows-what to your body, committed mass genocide, hurt people including fellow HiME and is doing self harm, most people would burn bridges in a heart beat.

Not Natsuki.

She became big, bigger than any human being could possibly become by giving Shizuru a second chance. If the giant Clifford-sized Duran is any indication, Natsuki proved her love for Shizuru in several ways. Even prior to the epic episode 25 battle, we saw Natsuki protecting Shizuru by warning her not to get close or something bad may happen. She lost her mother, losing Shizuru would shatter her world.

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Re: Who's love was greater? Natsuki or Shizuru?

Post by Dead.And.Alive on Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:06 pm

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:If the giant Clifford-sized Duran is any indication.
Not sure why but the way you phrased that made me laugh so hard... o__o
May be lack of sleep ^^;

But yeah, what ya said was true (to me at least).

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Re: Who's love was greater? Natsuki or Shizuru?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Fri Oct 12, 2012 3:26 pm

Dead.And.Alive wrote:Not sure why but the way you phrased that made me laugh so hard... o__o
May be lack of sleep ^^;

But yeah, what ya said was true (to me at least).

Could be. XD I didn't mean to make anyone laugh, it was just a accurate description. Nice to know you agree, most fans would say Shizuru's love was stronger because she was the only one who went off the deep end for true love.

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When Shizuru said "Ara" for the first time, the "Ara" broke into a thousand pieces and they all went skipping about. That was the beginning of fairies.
"In the words of George Takei, "Ara~!"

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Re: Who's love was greater? Natsuki or Shizuru?

Post by Dead.And.Alive on Fri Oct 12, 2012 7:46 pm

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:Nice to know you agree, most fans would say Shizuru's love was stronger because she was the only one who went off the deep end for true love.
I don't honestly think I'd think differently in any circumstance, that is unless I was extremely close minded. But sadly, nobody else really paid attention to this thread so we couldn't see any other opinions.

Oh well. =P

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Re: Who's love was greater? Natsuki or Shizuru?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:44 pm

Dead.And.Alive wrote:I don't honestly think I'd think differently in any circumstance, that is unless I was extremely close minded. But sadly, nobody else really paid attention to this thread so we couldn't see any other opinions.

Oh well. =P

=p We'll see about that! Your thread was buried during my time off, so it's time for a little revival.

bump

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When Shizuru said "Ara" for the first time, the "Ara" broke into a thousand pieces and they all went skipping about. That was the beginning of fairies.
"In the words of George Takei, "Ara~!"

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Re: Who's love was greater? Natsuki or Shizuru?

Post by Dead.And.Alive on Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:26 pm

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:=p We'll see about that! Your thread was buried during my time off, so it's time for a little revival.

bump
To tell you the truth, I had completely forgotten about my own little thread. >.>;

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Re: Who's love was greater? Natsuki or Shizuru?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:42 pm

Dead.And.Alive wrote:
Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:=p We'll see about that! Your thread was buried during my time off, so it's time for a little revival.

bump
To tell you the truth, I had completely forgotten about my own little thread. >.>;

XD You posted it while I was away on my trip. I almost did too. ShizNat deserves the love and attention, so just wait a bit longer. :'3

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When Shizuru said "Ara" for the first time, the "Ara" broke into a thousand pieces and they all went skipping about. That was the beginning of fairies.
"In the words of George Takei, "Ara~!"

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Re: Who's love was greater? Natsuki or Shizuru?

Post by Dead.And.Alive on Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:51 pm

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:XD You posted it while I was away on my trip. I almost did too. ShizNat deserves the love and attention, so just wait a bit longer. :'3

It was actually quite quiet while you were gone. I mean, sure, people were still replying and all that good stuff but much slower than usual. >.<
Anyway, yes, they deserve love and attention, but that's the whole point of this category so that in general is enough. =P

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Re: Who's love was greater? Natsuki or Shizuru?

Post by Kuga Natsuki on Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:26 pm

Dead.And.Alive wrote:So, I was thinking: Who loved the other more? Natsuki or Shizuru?
Yes we probably all think 'Well isn't it obvious? Shizuru of course.' or maybe not, might just be some. Maybe they even loved each other equally, that's your choice really.

I mean, if you think about it, Natsuki unknowingly loved Shizuru since she met her just as she did to Natsuki. First she gave her the little faith she had, learned to trust her, then was violated (so we think) by her while still forgiving her and then shot Kiyohime. Yes she did stop her from anymore rampaging, and to help end the HiME Festival, but in a sense I got that Natsuki no longer wanted Shizuru commit anymore wrong doings. Especially not for someone like her (since she's always downgrading herself...).That and I'm pretty sure Natsuki was straight up until the point that she realized how she felt about Shizuru. Natsuki's love was what I call pure.

Shizuru on the other hand obviously loved Natsuki in a way most can't. I mean, she even went on a killing spree and temporarily lost her sanity for the girl. Just wanting to eliminate all of her so called "troubles" and anything that was unpleasant to her. Plus the fact that she knew she loved Natsuki, but didn't show it because she knew that keeping a distance was best. Really she just wanted to protect what she claimed hers. As to what I said about Natsuki's "pure" love, Shizuru's might be a full fledged emotion but it was full of desire (thus it being impure). She didn't exactly think about what Natsuki, simply herself making her selfish like I've stated elsewhere.

Maybe I'm might just be over analyzing this, maybe not. I'm just curious to whether or not people think the same. Anyway, all in all, I think Natsuki surpasses Shizuru in this aspect.

I'd say (obviously) in the first place, Shizuru's was greater, but when Natsuki learned the truth about Shizuru and talked to her teacher, things became clear to her about loving people, let alone Shizuru, so to me, in the end, both loves seemed equally as great, but perhaps Natsuki's was a bit stronger, because Duran was able to kill Kiyohime *shrug*

Both of their loves were about equally as powerful, yet they were different. In Shizuru's case, it was love at first sight. Something about Kuga struck her and caused her to fall in love. For Natsuki, she eventually figured out how much Shizuru has done for her, healing her when Natsuki was at rock bottom, and Natsuki decided to face her demons, and decided to give Shizuru a second chance, because she realized how much she actually loved Shizuru (but perhaps her love was only friendship-wise), but like the book said, it was hinted that the two got together after the show ended, since Natsuki gave Shizuru a second chance and was accepting her feelings and within time, Natsuki possibly thought it over more and more, and realizing how much Shizuru has done to her, perhaps Natsuki realized that Shizuru is THE person (not girl, PERSON) for her, thus making Natsuki developing romantic feelings back.

But was Shizuru's love desire? Sure it was, and going back to the debate, although her love was desire within some point, I still don't see Shizuru doing something drastic to Natsuki while she was sleeping, and Fujino did say she never intended to make Natsuki suffer. It was a lame excuse for her to say that, yes, but to me, she said that because she knew doing something like raping Natsuki was bad and "wicked", because stealing Natsuki's kiss was selfish enough. Theory B is perhaps maybe Fujino DID get in the futon, yet at the same time, she held back. And if Shizuru did rape Natsuki, why on earth did Natsuki forgive Shizuru? To me, a kiss stolen is worth to forgive someone, but raping, not at all. Anywho...

In my opinion, Natsuki wasn't the type of person to love another person, but Shizuru was an exception on many levels, because their love for one another had set them both free from their own play of shadows that were haunting them: Shizuru's fear of her love being revealed, and Natsuki's darkness of not trusting every single person on the planet.

I was rambling and drifting in and out so forgive me if this post doesn't make sense XD But all and all, in my opinion, both loves are equally as great, that developed in different ways, but meet the same destiny.

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Re: Who's love was greater? Natsuki or Shizuru?

Post by Dead.And.Alive on Sun Oct 14, 2012 8:54 pm

Nymphetamine wrote:Things became clear to her about loving people, let alone Shizuru, so to me, in the end, both loves seemed equally as great, but perhaps Natsuki's was a bit stronger, because Duran was able to kill Kiyohime *shrug*

That might have been just the timing though, Natsuki deliberately waited until that very moment to order Duran to fire.

Nymphetamine wrote:In my opinion, Natsuki wasn't the type of person to love another person, but Shizuru was an exception on many levels, because their love for one another had set them both free from their own play of shadows that were haunting them: Shizuru's fear of her love being revealed, and Natsuki's darkness of not trusting every single person on the planet.

This is just me saying this but Natsuki wasn't just the type of person to not love another but she couldn't love anyone, I mean, she could barely trust the simplest things from people she saw daily. She said it herself, she wouldn't let herself trust anyone and she didn't need them. So letting Shizuru catch her off guard was her first "big" step. Like you said, both of them shared a similar scenario, and were to afraid to show what they truly felt causing a great conflict (internally that is). Which is why I say again, Natsuki prevails over Shizuru since she carried a bit more of a burden (in my opinion that is) but like I said, that's just me (...and Luu).

Nymphetamine wrote:I was rambling and drifting in and out so forgive me if this post doesn't make sense XD But all and all, in my opinion, both loves are equally as great, that developed in different ways, but meet the same destiny.
Yeah I had to read it a few times... >.<


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Re: Who's love was greater? Natsuki or Shizuru?

Post by Kuga Natsuki on Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:01 pm

Luu wanted me to post here, so I did Razz I kind of regret it, though, since I wasn't prepared

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Re: Who's love was greater? Natsuki or Shizuru?

Post by Dead.And.Alive on Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:26 pm

Nymphetamine wrote:Luu wanted me to post here, so I did Razz I kind of regret it, though, since I wasn't prepared

Luu made you? xD
Ah, well, willingly or not it's still your same opinion (at least I think it is). And how are you possibly going to properly "prepare" for a post anyway? Have you forgotten our friend the edit button? =P

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Re: Who's love was greater? Natsuki or Shizuru?

Post by Kuga Natsuki on Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:44 pm

I can't be arsed editing haha. I'm fried today, excuse me Razz

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Re: Who's love was greater? Natsuki or Shizuru?

Post by Dead.And.Alive on Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:49 pm

Not your fault, we all have those days. Right? :3

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Re: Who's love was greater? Natsuki or Shizuru?

Post by Kuga Natsuki on Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:59 pm

Yup :3

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Re: Who's love was greater? Natsuki or Shizuru?

Post by Kino karutta-chan on Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:43 pm

I don't see how it matters to know who loves who more, as long as they do love each other. To quote Nymphe:
Nymphetamine wrote:But all and all, in my opinion, both loves are equally as great, that developed in different ways, but meet the same destiny.
Seeing as both Duran and Kiyohime have the same height and strength in the end (just like D.A.A. I like to believe that Duran defeating Kiyohime was lucky timing and due the ability that Duran had an firing attack like that in the first place) just gives this opinion some halt, no??

But we are here to discuss this topic, so let me try this for a bit.

Natsuki's forgiveness towards the things Shizuru did is great.
I am talking about killing, if Shizuru really did kill, all those District 1 people (if I remember correctly we don't know if she did kill them, doesn't she only say something about getting rid of them or taking care of them??), but she did kill Nao's mother and Haruka (am I forgetting someone??) (at least as long as they were actually dead, dadum). And she kissed Natsuki without her permission. What I still don't believe is that she raped her (or whatever people think she did) (but that's not the discussion point here, so).
If you love someone you are able to forgive them for whatever they did (or something like that, there are still limits to that, I believe).
(I wanted to say something about Natsuki's trust issues here, but my thoughts are too mazy, so I won't XD)

Shizuru doing everything to protect Natsuki is something great too. As horrific as that can turn out, it's as much worth as being able to forgive.
And we did see what Shizuru did to protect Natsuki (see above). Even if it means to protect her from Shizuru herself in the end. Did Shizuru intended to do that?? I don't know. We don't know what would have happened if Natsuki didn't kill them both. In the end Shizuru only seemed to care about making Natsuki hers alone (whatever that even means; keeping her captive?? o.o Making love to her until Natsuki can't say 'no' to her anymore?? XD, or did she?? She did protect her after all from this bell falling down on Natsuki. So what is my point?? I DON'T KNOW!- I mean- *coughs* See above: "Shizuru doing everything to protect Natsuki is something great too."

*flees from the thread Akira Okuzaki

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Re: Who's love was greater? Natsuki or Shizuru?

Post by Dead.And.Alive on Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:38 pm

Kino karutta-chan wrote:I don't see how it matters to know who loves who more, as long as they do love each other.
In all honesty, like you said, I don't think it matters as love as they do love each other. It's just a matter I'd like to see more about. :3

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Re: Who's love was greater? Natsuki or Shizuru?

Post by Natsuki-chan on Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:18 am

Natsuki.

Because you can love a person even if you don't trust them. (ex: family, relatives)
But you can never trust someone you do not love.

The best proof of love is trust. -Joyce Brothers

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Re: Who's love was greater? Natsuki or Shizuru?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Sun Dec 16, 2012 5:59 am

Natsuki-chan wrote:Natsuki.

Because you can love a person even if you don't trust them. (ex: family, relatives)
But you can never trust someone you do not love.

The best proof of love is trust. -Joyce Brothers

Nicely said, Natsuki! high five

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When Shizuru said "Ara" for the first time, the "Ara" broke into a thousand pieces and they all went skipping about. That was the beginning of fairies.
"In the words of George Takei, "Ara~!"

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