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Would you had left Natsuki behind?

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Would you had left Natsuki behind?

Post by GAP on Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:56 pm

In episode 22 (I believe), Haruka calls out Shizuru for leaving the school at a crucial when she couldn't handle the school herself. Granted, Haruka had not no right to do considering that she left school as well to search for the kaichou but she did have a point, Haruka and Yukino needed her help and she was the school president after all. I am not sure how accurate TVTropes is but in the Values Dissonance page, they talked about how both the East and the West perceived the situation.
I am speaking in general as it may not apply to everyone but in the East, Haruka was basically right to call out Shizuru for abandoning her post especially Japan is a duty oriented country and she just basically commited a dereliction of duty. In the West, Shizuru saving Natsuki isn't as frowned upon as she saved her friend from trouble. I am only being broad here but what do you guys think? When you consider that Natsuki was taken by Nao and would had most likely killed her if had not Shizuru intervened, would had left Natsuki behind?

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Re: Would you had left Natsuki behind?

Post by IlliterateKoi on Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:45 pm

If I were in Shizuru's position I would have done exactly the same as she did. No job or duty should be more important than those you care about, and if my best friend was in danger and I could do something about it, I would drop whatever I was doing and go help them.

This is without taking into account the fact that Shizuru was madly in love with Natsuki. Picking a group of people that you are not close to over the one you love is not something many would be able/willing to do.

Also, let's say that it was Yukino who had been captured by Nao. I have a hard time believing that Haruka would just sit around in the student council room taking care of the other students. I think she would be out there trying to save Yukino so that they could both return to the school and continue their duties as members of the student council. The primary difference between Shizuru and Haruka in this respect is that Haruka is passionate about her role on the council, whereas Shizuru is much more nonchalant about it. Personally I think that Shizuru has her priorities straight, but as you mentioned, this may be a more western idea.

I'd be interested to see if anyone here would have stayed at the school if they were in Shizuru's position, and what their reasons for doing so would be, especially when you consider that the reason Shizuru ran for the role of Kaichou was for Natsuki's benefit and not through any genuine wish to be head of the student body.


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Re: Would you had left Natsuki behind?

Post by Magus Phantalus on Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:16 pm

Not in this or any life if either if the two most important people to me were in trouble well the world would get very simple everyone else would be divided into two groups in my mind. Those who are in my way and those who are no longer in my way.

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Re: Would you had left Natsuki behind?

Post by shezaei-neko on Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:34 pm

Well, maybe Haruka has this deep sense of duty because she DID want to be the president, because she wanted it, maybe it was a goal or whatever, she wanted to be.
But we all know that Shizuru decided to run for the position for Natsuki's sake, so the position didn't mean that much to her, so she didn't have any qualms on putting that position aside and go help Natsuki. She didn't have that commitment to the position as she had it for Natsuki.

But to answer the original question: No, I wouldn't have left Natsuki behind.

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Re: Would you had left Natsuki behind?

Post by Magus Phantalus on Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:38 am

shezaei-neko wrote:Well, maybe Haruka has this deep sense of duty because she DID want to be the president, because she wanted it, maybe it was a goal or whatever, she wanted to be.
But we all know that Shizuru decided to run for the position for Natsuki's sake, so the position didn't mean that much to her, so she didn't have any qualms on putting that position aside and go help Natsuki. She didn't have that commitment to the position as she had it for Natsuki.

But to answer the original question: No, I wouldn't have left Natsuki behind.

That is a rather interesting perspective for Haruka's case.

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Re: Would you had left Natsuki behind?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Wed Aug 08, 2012 12:07 pm

Haruka seeks acceptance, not so much attention, from her peers. The girl always had trouble expressing herself to others. Even to her own sidekick/childhood friend, Yukino. Think back to Episode 9 of Mai-HiME where Haruka asked Yukino to get rubbed down with lotion. She could even look at her straight in the eyes and request it like a normal person. Okay, placing "Normal" and "Haruka" is a bit of a stretch...

In Shizuru's case, I have to agree with the others before me. Your friends come first no matter what, she had no choice but to enroll herself in a role that could open doors for Natsuki's First District investigation. I could understand Haruka's Eastern attitude to abandon "duty and country", but that would also be considered a sin on U.S. soil. Try going AWOL on military duty, nobody will look at you the same way again. Regardless, I remain sided with Shizuru on this matter. This is about protecting a friend while combating the bad guys at the same time. The latter isn't Shizuru's priority, but she was more than happy to assist Natsuki in the matter and that's fine with me.

Natsuki, it's you and me all the way. No matter what happens.

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Re: Would you had left Natsuki behind?

Post by shezaei-neko on Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:23 pm

Now that you mention it, she sure behaves as a soldier. Commanding all her lackies from the council around, her poses, and her beliefs regarding compromise and commitment to a position.

But well, in the end it may have been pure talk. We know that shw would have done the same for Yukino is that were the case...

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Re: Would you had left Natsuki behind?

Post by CaptainVonCookie on Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:19 pm

I'm actually more worried over the fact that the school didn't close after clearly being in danger and people dying left and right!

Plus the East vs West mentality is culturally relevant but only to a certain point. Anime characters don't seems to act like the "what's best for the group is the right way" but seem to be more individualistic and adopting an in between characterization, many times personifying human feelings people who created them would like to act upon instead of being bound by society laws.

Leaving Natsuki to die would be quite stupid for Shizuru to do. She'd probably just go berserk and kill everybody. And besides, she may have left her post but I don't recall anything happening during that time to the school (that didn't have to do with gigantic mechanical monsters and murderous teens). From where I'm standing she seemed to have everything in control even when she lost herself.
Having people under her that she believes are capable of handling her business when she can't be there is part of her job too.

So, in conclusion I would go after the girl as well. But being the lazy ass I am I wouldn't have run the school as well and since I'd probably leave without having anyone trustworthy behind to take over, the school would be destroyed.

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Re: Would you had left Natsuki behind?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:07 pm

shezaei-neko wrote:Now that you mention it, she sure behaves as a soldier. Commanding all her lackies from the council around, her poses, and her beliefs regarding compromise and commitment to a position.

But well, in the end it may have been pure talk. We know that shw would have done the same for Yukino is that were the case...

It was pure talk, Neko-chan. Haruka's demanding forcefulness is compensation for her insecurity and secret fondness for the Kaichou. It doesn't make her pathetic, it just doesn't make her honest. Yukino knew this the whole time and spilled Haruka's feelings right in front of Shizuru (and a hidden Natsuki).

CaptainVonCookie wrote:Leaving Natsuki to die would be quite stupid for Shizuru to do. She'd probably just go berserk and kill everybody. And besides, she may have left her post but I don't recall anything happening during that time to the school (that didn't have to do with gigantic mechanical monsters and murderous teens). From where I'm standing she seemed to have everything in control even when she lost herself.
Having people under her that she believes are capable of handling her business when she can't be there is part of her job too.

So, in conclusion I would go after the girl as well. But being the lazy ass I am I wouldn't have run the school as well and since I'd probably leave without having anyone trustworthy behind to take over, the school would be destroyed.

What I don't understand about Haruka's complaining (other than Shizuru abandoning her duties IN GENERAL) is that she was able to keep everyone at Fuka safe with the best of her ability. Sure, the students missed class and became lazy by using the random incidents as an excuse, but no innocent bystander was killed.

I'm a lazy ass myself, I wouldn't return to my duties (if I return at all) until I know the one I love is protected from all who dare to hurt her.

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Re: Would you had left Natsuki behind?

Post by CaptainVonCookie on Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:59 am

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote: What I don't understand about Haruka's complaining (other than Shizuru abandoning her duties IN GENERAL) is that she was able to keep everyone at Fuka safe with the best of her ability. Sure, the students missed class and became lazy by using the random incidents as an excuse, but no innocent bystander was killed.

I'm a lazy ass myself, I wouldn't return to my duties (if I return at all) until I know the one I love is protected from all who dare to hurt her.

Thank God we don't have that kind of responsibility then! The world would be doomed!

Well, Shizuru suddenly left without saying anything. (wasn't it? I don't quite remember, did she even leave a message?) While Yukino knew what she was up to, Haruka was completely clueless. So naturally Haruka waited for the leader to show up and start doing her magic. I think Haruka could have managed the school just fine on her own, but she was used to ask Shizuru and even Reito for permission since they as council leaders need to approve everything. But she freaked out with the absence of both and kept waiting for them to return instead of taking the reigns. She's an emotional person so I get she worried for her friends and couldn't concentrate on her duties. Yukino's here at fault for not backing Haruka up on that and leading her right into a compromising situation. I honestly think the problem here was that everyone involved lacked proper training in emergency procedures. If one is absent the next in line takes on the responsibility, it's one of the reasons there's more than one member and hierarchy on a council.

Haruka's complaining is emotional at best. They are still friends after the whole ordeal.

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Re: Would you had left Natsuki behind?

Post by shezaei-neko on Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:23 pm

I think that also Haruka in the end had a half-baked attitude.

After Shizuru left to assist Natsuki, and with Reito planning his evil schemes, it was the perfect chance for her to show what she could do.
I agree with what you've said about the next in line of command, even with the two other gone, she had the authority that time since she was the next in that line, so all power of the council fell on her. She didn't neet the authorization of the others. It was her time to shine and what did she do? Chase after the kaichou just to slap her and yell at her for choosing a friend and most important person over a duty with the others.
If she wanted to show everyone how she could do best on the council over Shizuru, then why not take the chance? It's not as if she was taking the position by force or cheated in someway to get there. It's simply that the circumstances led her there, it was innevitable...

Just to note that this doesn't mean that I hate her or anything, but simply that her behavior made me think.


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Re: Would you had left Natsuki behind?

Post by GAP on Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:35 pm

It seem illogical consider that she wanted to surpass Shizuru in a lot of ways, it was the best time to do that.

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Re: Would you had left Natsuki behind?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:44 pm

GAP wrote:It seem illogical consider that she wanted to surpass Shizuru in a lot of ways, it was the best time to do that.

Yes, that's true. However, even Haruka has more pride than that. Shizuru abandoning her duties is practically handing Haruka the "victory". Even hot headed Suzushiro is better than that. For the record, Shizuru is either unaware of just doesn't care about this "competition" between herself and Haruka. Same for for Viola and Armitage. it's all in Haruka's little blonde head.

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Re: Would you had left Natsuki behind?

Post by shezaei-neko on Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:37 pm

Oh legawds....Haruka sure has a hot-head for all of this stuff....

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Re: Would you had left Natsuki behind?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:38 pm

shezaei-neko wrote:Oh legawds....Haruka sure has a hot-head for all of this stuff....

It's hard to compete with such an elegant Kaichou woman~

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Re: Would you had left Natsuki behind?

Post by shezaei-neko on Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:19 pm

Very true. And the most incredible thing is that she doesn't even give a f*ck trying....it's a natural... XD

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Re: Would you had left Natsuki behind?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:45 am

shezaei-neko wrote:Very true. And the most incredible thing is that she doesn't even give a f*ck trying....it's a natural... XD

The election was completely one sided. After hearing Haruka's rantings on rules and corporal punishment, I wouldn't vote for her either. ^^;

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Re: Would you had left Natsuki behind?

Post by shezaei-neko on Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:42 pm

I think that only Yukino voted for her out of love. Razz

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Re: Would you had left Natsuki behind?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:28 pm

shezaei-neko wrote:I think that only Yukino voted for her out of love. Razz

And nothing else~ I will admit that Yukino eventually got to notice what a hard worker Haruka really is, which is a good thing. Though, you can't force that fact onto Shizuru. It just doesn't work. XD

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Re: Would you had left Natsuki behind?

Post by shezaei-neko on Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:52 pm

Who would have thought that Yukino would have a sharp tongue?

But as usual Shizuru doesn't give a damn... XD

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Re: Would you had left Natsuki behind?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:57 pm

shezaei-neko wrote:Who would have thought that Yukino would have a sharp tongue?

But as usual Shizuru doesn't give a damn... XD

XD As if Yukino tried using Natsuki's name in order to get a reaction, she's gonna get slapped.

Shizuru Kaichou : I will not have you insulting Natsuki-chan~

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Re: Would you had left Natsuki behind?

Post by shezaei-neko on Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:12 am

Shizuru sure reacted like a lady by slapping Haruka.
If it had been Natsuki, Haruka would have ended with a black eye. XD

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Re: Would you had left Natsuki behind?

Post by GAP on Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:47 am

True. Natsuki isn't as polite as our kaichou.

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Re: Would you had left Natsuki behind?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:37 am

shezaei-neko wrote:Shizuru sure reacted like a lady by slapping Haruka.
If it had been Natsuki, Haruka would have ended with a black eye. XD

Forget that! XD Haruka would of been frozen solid! Natsuki's gracefulness is non-existent, even in Mai-HiME.

Miss Maria : Some things never change.

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Re: Would you had left Natsuki behind?

Post by shezaei-neko on Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:18 pm

Oh come on Luu.
Give our Kruger some credit. She's more graceful in Otome. And I bet that Viola agrees with me.

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