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Which pairing is canon and which fanon (known as crack too)?

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Which pairing is canon and which fanon (known as crack too)?

Post by Kino karutta-chan on Mon Jan 02, 2012 6:32 pm

umm... I know it's not really the topic, but if you talk about "canon" and "fanon" shouldn't you make clear what that really means first?? Because I have the feelings that we have different opinions about it, atleast I can see that Kat and I have : D Since I can't see why Chie and Aoi are more canon (canon at all actually) than Mai and Tate. still not the topic, I know, I know, but find a defintion when you use both termes in the thread-topic, pretty please?? ö.ö

Edit:
Me and my awesome edit-skills got the post from She in here too, I am sorry about that <_<

The thread goes for both Mai HiME and Mai Otome pairings btw. Where does the HiME/Otome general section come from?? ;P

So, I asked myself the question: What makes a pairing canon, because Kat mentioned in NatNao, ShizNatNao, ShizNao... why it really doesn't make sense.-Thread that Aoi and Chie are canon. More to that below~


Last edited by Kino karutta-chan on Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:20 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Which pairing is canon and which fanon (known as crack too)?

Post by MidnightPersona on Mon Jan 02, 2012 6:37 pm

Kino karutta-chan wrote:umm... I know it's not really the topic, but if you talk about "canon" and "fanon" shouldn't you make clear what that really means first?? Because I have the feelings that we have different opinions about it, atleast I can see that Kat and I have : D Since I can't see why Chie and Aoi are more canon (canon at all actually) than Mai and Tate. still not the topic, I know, I know, but find a defintion when you use both termes in the thread-topic, pretty please?? ö.ö

Canon: Officially done by the company or announced by the company later or in later series editions or sequels/prequels. I.e. MaiTate (Official via HiME), ShizNat (Official via HiME/Otome), HaruKino (Made official via Otome/Zwei, also counts for HiME via comapany), ChieAoi (Otome offical), KazuAkane, TakumiAkira

Fanon (sometimes known as crack): MaiHo, NatNao, ShizNao, ReitoTate, ReitoNago TakadaTate, ShizHaur, YukinoMikoto, MiyuAkane, etc. Pairs that would make little to no sense, and/or pairs that can be seen happaning in the canon if certain things were changed or can happen in a possible future.

^--What I mean by the two at least

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Re: Which pairing is canon and which fanon (known as crack too)?

Post by she-ga-roo on Mon Jan 02, 2012 6:39 pm

Cheshire Kat wrote:
she-ga-roo wrote:

but that both isn't the topic of this discussion...

I know it isn't, but I was voicing my opinion about those two points of her argument. I'm allowed to do that, aren't I? o.o

MidnightPersona wrote:Yes, Kat. But I think She-ga-roo was trying to get across that the entire subject needs to go back to the original, but I do appritiate your imput.
yeah, that's what i was trying to do. i didn't mean to offend anyone.


MidnightPersona wrote:HUGS to you both for going the extra mile in trying to understand and defend points. Also, I haven't forgot your posts she-ga-roo but I wanna give them attention and I am distracted atm. Sorry xD
it's okay. take your time ^^

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Re: Which pairing is canon and which fanon (known as crack too)?

Post by Kino karutta-chan on Mon Jan 02, 2012 6:49 pm

MidnightPersona wrote:
Kino karutta-chan wrote:umm... I know it's not really the topic, but if you talk about "canon" and "fanon" shouldn't you make clear what that really means first?? Because I have the feelings that we have different opinions about it, atleast I can see that Kat and I have : D Since I can't see why Chie and Aoi are more canon (canon at all actually) than Mai and Tate. still not the topic, I know, I know, but find a defintion when you use both termes in the thread-topic, pretty please?? ö.ö

Canon: Officially done by the company or announced by the company later or in later series editions or sequels/prequels. I.e. [...] HaruKino (Made official via Otome/Zwei, also counts for HiME via comapany), ChieAoi (Otome offical)[...]

There goes my problem. When were they ever announced offical??

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Which pairing is canon and which fanon (known as crack too)?

Post by MidnightPersona on Mon Jan 02, 2012 6:54 pm

Kino karutta-chan wrote:
MidnightPersona wrote:
Kino karutta-chan wrote:umm... I know it's not really the topic, but if you talk about "canon" and "fanon" shouldn't you make clear what that really means first?? Because I have the feelings that we have different opinions about it, atleast I can see that Kat and I have : D Since I can't see why Chie and Aoi are more canon (canon at all actually) than Mai and Tate. still not the topic, I know, I know, but find a defintion when you use both termes in the thread-topic, pretty please?? ö.ö

Canon: Officially done by the company or announced by the company later or in later series editions or sequels/prequels. I.e. [...] HaruKino (Made official via Otome/Zwei, also counts for HiME via comapany), ChieAoi (Otome offical)[...]

There goes my problem. When were they ever announced offical??

Official as-in they are made a pair in the series. According to a fellow member (and I'd like confirmation for sure) HaruKino was made official via Otome, as if you watch the series it is seen in their relationship. As-is ChieAoi. They don't have to say 'HEY! LOOK AT THIS PAIR!' because, honestly, you could say, in that train of thought, MaiTate, ShizNat, etc isn't canon when the company has went out of it's way to show these pairs the way they intended. You never see Mai with anyone in Otome except an outline of Tate, you never see Nao, Shiho, or Mikoto with anyone, Chie is with Aoi, Haruka with Yukino, Shizuru with Natsuki, etc etc. They remain in their incarnations the same love they've always had--just older. How I see it at least. I find it hard to watch either series and see how anyone can say otherwise, but, honestly, if we're gonna discuss this perhaps you can start a new thread, Kino, so mine can get on track please? Thanks xD *hugs Kino*

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Re: Which pairing is canon and which fanon (known as crack too)?

Post by Kino karutta-chan on Mon Jan 02, 2012 7:18 pm

I think the problem for me for seeing Aoi and Chie and Haruka and Yukino as canon is that I think they (I mean the makers of the series) have to show they (I mean the characters : P) are in a relationship in some way. Hints that there could be something between them isn't enough for me. I need some kind of a statement, prove.

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Re: Which pairing is canon and which fanon (known as crack too)?

Post by SpiralDasher on Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:22 pm

Personal Opinion

Canon:
Akira/Takumi
Mai/Tate
Akane/Kazuma
Shizuru/Tea
Haruka/Yukino (Otome)
Chie/Aoi (Otome)
Yukariko/Guy Who's Clearly Into Young Boys
Natsuki/Takeda (Forever one-sided)
Fumi/Her Job
Midori/College Professor We Only Find Out Exists In the Last Few Episodes Wtf Sunrise (Hime only)

Non-Canon/Fanon:
Nat/Nao
Shiho/Tate (One-sided)
Midori/Youko (If only Sunrise would listen. T_T)
Alyssa/Miyu
Shiznat
Mai/Mikoto

Crack:
Almost everything else. To be honest, I'm not giving this much thought so I might have missed some that I put into above categories. I took some of my personal preference pairings out of this list and used more popular pairings.

If you want me to put other pairings, tell me them specifically and I'll throw them down somewhere.

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Re: Which pairing is canon and which fanon (known as crack too)?

Post by Yuri-hime on Mon Jan 02, 2012 9:43 pm

Kino karutta-chan wrote:I think the problem for me for seeing Aoi and Chie and Haruka and Yukino as canon is that I think they (I mean the makers of the series) have to show they (I mean the characters : P) are in a relationship in some way. Hints that there could be something between them isn't enough for me. I need some kind of a statement, prove.
Thank you. Exactly. Which makes Haruka/Yukino as much crack as Shizuru/Nao.

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Re: Which pairing is canon and which fanon (known as crack too)?

Post by MidnightPersona on Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:42 am

Yuri-hime wrote:
Kino karutta-chan wrote:I think the problem for me for seeing Aoi and Chie and Haruka and Yukino as canon is that I think they (I mean the makers of the series) have to show they (I mean the characters : P) are in a relationship in some way. Hints that there could be something between them isn't enough for me. I need some kind of a statement, prove.
Thank you. Exactly. Which makes Haruka/Yukino as much crack as Shizuru/Nao.

This. Read it. Cutesy of Wolvy.

Twisted Eternal Wolvetta wrote:WARNING; Defensive of "canon pairings" over to the stage of wanting to rip a persons throat out? Well, avoid my post, since I'm being VERY blunt here.

I couldn't help but find this rather ridiculous, all of this fighting amongst one another - anyhow, I'll put down something, considering I can't resist.

First people are banshee howling about ShizTom, and now this? Sure, I wrote NaoNatsu (in no way would Kuga/Kruger even be dominant here) but there are some very important facts which make them extremely unlikely to get together, considering that they are constantly at one another's throats, and not in the sexual way, mind you. Even in crack, they are going to be a pairing which is more difficult to conquer than one such as... let's put this random – NaoShiho. Manshiro gets more action on Viola than the whole of one sided ShizNatsu in the HiME-manga.

NaoNatsu; anguish, torment, annoyance, pestering.
Yuuki - As far as I could understand when I watched HiME for the few times which I ever have done, Yuuki is merely far too busy working to get money for her mother. (Remember she is simply tricking men into getting money from them, nothing else, nothing sexual). She has the line of innocence and immaturity which brings out her obvious inexperience to the field of communication and combat. The bondage point - perhaps one day she would gain some type of fetish for such an activity, however, she merely uses this skill in order to capture the runt of a pack for the alpha to barge in and tear it away from her clutches. Target the weakest -> gain access to the powerhouse. e,g; if you were to target Takumi, Akira would come charging in, just alike to how Manshiro would for Arika, Nina, Erstin, etc.

Kuga - innocence, awkwardness concerning social situations. Kuga and Yuuki are natural enemies. Aye, hatred can turn into love, but with some people this is merely impossible, especially with the events of the HiME carnival. Would you seriously just by random strut into a room towards Natsuki who you hate with a passion and abruptly propose your love for her whom is your worst enemy? No.

Yuuki – asexual.
Kuga – pansexual. (Remember that both Kuga and Kruger detest sexual harrassment. They hate Takeda never getting the fact that she doesn't like him, however, Kuga's first canon friend was literally Fujino, so that was a background point where she "didn't mind as much" to Fujino's constant teasing. However, in Otome, Kruger hated Viola for their first contact being that of sexual harrassment).
Fujino – raging lesbian.
Mai – pansexual (there are plenty of hints throughout the whole series portraying MaiNatsu with ease).

Remember, we can't understand many of the characters because most never got near enough attention to take a guess on their sexuality.

Suzushiro? Perhaps bi, maybe lesbian, hell, maybe even pansexual. But again, there wasn't enough attention directed to her to even lead to a physical clue into what her feelings are for the sexes.

---

What in the hell is it with the HaruKino and ChieAoi apparently not existing all of a sudden? LOL.

Yukino: Haruka dear!
Haruka: Don't call me dear in public, Yukino!

The main reason I watch HiME these days is because of the HaruKino. I cannot stand ShizNatsu whatsoever. Remember this; in the HiME anime Kuga and Fujino weren't even together. So by HiME, they aren't actually canon, and also, remember this; there was the extra for Kuga and Fujino's future saying it got better for the both of them, but this doesn't mean that they were in an ultimate romantic connection. (Kuga has an understanding to Fujino, but by hell, when spazzy Fujino clings to Kuga, I can't help but find the awkward expression upon Kuga's features also holding the trace of annoyance as well). We cannot say for sure what the HiME Movie with Arika was on about because Sunrise never even released anything else on about it. Merely the "eye-candy" of an apparent injured Fujino with a concerned Kuga.

A lot of you say you understand characters so well, and yet you are missing the point – you are here, avoiding Midnight's comment which is merely her belief into a pairing, she has given out many strong pointers here and yet you are getting so defensive over such a topic.

I hate the characters which are Shizuru and Natsuki, and so I avoid them, I've merely commented my options in certain topics because I am attempting to bring in a light here, just like now, and how Midnight is doing right at this moment; I voiced my own options about Tomoe's characteristics and that she is so misunderstood, and yet for this, I got a load of nonsense. LOL. You try having your favourite character of the series evidently being ruined by Sunrise, considering the translation I made of Tomoe “spazzing” over Shizuru for Mao was rather... distasteful. Sure, the fans of the minor characters are plunged right to the bottom of the bag and crushed daily, especially by Trollrise, and yet still people are obsessing over two characters and missing the whole point of the series which teaches you about love (straight, bi, lesbian, transgender (Akira/Manshiro), pansexual, asexual), determination, dedication, the risks of mental disorder (borderline personality disorder) and development throughout life from childhood and through the gateway to adulthood. (When Mashiro and Nagi go through Valhalla, I see this as not only the future development of Earl, but also the development of these characters from these aspects – to train in Valhalla, to become a better person during the Twilight of the Gods/End of the World, etc).

Take Sailor Moon and Utena for instance, they teach you about the same factors, but these two were far more unique due to being the main supports of the yuri/shoujoai universe. Without these two series along with Rose of Versailles, you wouldn't have your ShizNatsu.

However, I do go entirely on Midnight's option here for yuri characters being official in Otome;

Canon;
ShizNatsu.
HaruKino.
ChieAoi (they are out DATING and catch ZHANG being... well, Zhang).

However there are also these points;

Subtext;
NaoNi (during more than one scene, Nina has blushed in response to Nao and other such things, although her reaction to Nao's “death” during Zwei was ridiculous, considering she never even thought upon her afterwards, Sunrise trolling there again looks like it).

TateMai cannot be classed as even hinted even since Mai said so herself that there was nothing between them when she had run off to think during Garderobe! Wouldn't you want to stay out of the way from peers whilst deciding your future in under a few hours? It is either you become an Otome for your brother, which, Mai knew Takumi wouldn't really need since he already has Akira, or become the Otome for a complete stranger. I'd be walking around just like her.

One-sided;
ShizTom
etc.

But back to the point, aye, NaoNatsu can happen if the plot is twisted a few times, although this would be beating their characteristics around all over the place, just alike to that of faintly twisting Mai Otome to get a pairing such as MaiTom. (Because truthfully? Crack isn't as “insane” as people think, it is rather enjoyable actually, and by a hell an amazingly nice change instead of seeing the same thing over and over and over and over and over. See my point here? Oh, a repeating word).

In my own option, I believe Nao and Natsuki are better suited as sisters/cousins, etc. Just alike to Mai and Mikoto. I do adore crack, but there are just some characters which I don't bring together (at least my modern self, anyhow).

Akira Okuzaki I remember the time when Yuuki came up to me asking about us dating, of course I refused though. I swear I heard something about her muttering under her breath about a woman and money though. ¬_¬

Pfft, my post is all over the place, from on topic to other replies.

But just as Hrist said in Valkyrie Profile. Avoided characters of the Mai Series: "Where is my leading role?!"

I wonder what the Mai Series would be like if the fans were just like the Touhou Project ones where characters are studied entirely along with people not giving a damn if a character never met the other and paired them together with a storyline to make them fandom-canon?

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Re: Which pairing is canon and which fanon (known as crack too)?

Post by Amaya on Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:21 am

Nothing about this topic is engraved in stone. There is no god of canon and fandom who decides what is what. If for Wolvetta and Raven HaruKino and ChieAoi are canon then it's also only from their point of view. In my opinion I pretty much feel like Kino and Yuri-hime. There are loads of hints but "real" relationship interaction is close to zero. In Mai HiME even more than in Otome. I am a fan of NatNao, yes but I wouldn't say they are canon.

The main thing is: Every characterization is subjective. That applies to that topic of what is canon and what not too.


Last edited by Amaya on Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:56 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Which pairing is canon and which fanon (known as crack too)?

Post by Yuri-hime on Tue Jan 03, 2012 1:36 pm

Amaya wrote:Nothing about this topic is engraved in stone. There is no god of canon and fandom who decides what is what. If for Wolvetta and Raven HaruKino and ChieAoi are canon then it's also only from their point of view. In my opinion I pretty much feel like Kino and Yuri-hime. There are loads of hints but "real" relationship interaction is close to zero. In Mai HiME even more than in Otome. I am a fan of NatNao, yes but I wouldn't say they are canon.
And that is the biggest issue I'm having with these topics. How can one put down another pairing as 'crack' and call the one they are supporting 'not crack'. The same rules apply for the so-called 'crack pairing' as they do for the pairing being supported. There are pairing-shutters being applied somewhere here.

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Re: Which pairing is canon and which fanon (known as crack too)?

Post by Magus Phantalus on Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:01 pm

Yuri-hime wrote:
Amaya wrote:Nothing about this topic is engraved in stone. There is no god of canon and fandom who decides what is what. If for Wolvetta and Raven HaruKino and ChieAoi are canon then it's also only from their point of view. In my opinion I pretty much feel like Kino and Yuri-hime. There are loads of hints but "real" relationship interaction is close to zero. In Mai HiME even more than in Otome. I am a fan of NatNao, yes but I wouldn't say they are canon.
And that is the biggest issue I'm having with these topics. How can one put down another pairing as 'crack' and call the one they are supporting 'not crack'. The same rules apply for the so-called 'crack pairing' as they do for the pairing being supported. There are pairing-shutters being applied somewhere here.

Yo.(exactly) Isn't this why we refer to it as the "Mai-Multiverse"? Diffirent people see diffrent things when they look at the stars after all, to quote a cat "Diffrent does not conotate good nor bad but it certainly does mean NOT the same."

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Re: Which pairing is canon and which fanon (known as crack too)?

Post by Amaya on Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:15 am

Magus Phantalus wrote:
"Diffrent does not conotate good nor bad but it certainly does mean NOT the same."

Nice one Arika Yumemiya

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Re: Which pairing is canon and which fanon (known as crack too)?

Post by Ris on Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:43 pm

SpiralDasher wrote:Canon:
Natsuki/Takeda (Forever one-sided)

Non-Canon/Fanon:
Shiznat
Saeko

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Re: Which pairing is canon and which fanon (known as crack too)?

Post by SpiralDasher on Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:47 pm

Ris wrote:
SpiralDasher wrote:Canon:
Natsuki/Takeda (Forever one-sided)

Non-Canon/Fanon:
Shiznat
Saeko
Shiznat is left up to the interpretation of the audience, but we all know Takeda has the hots for Natsuki, but it's forever one-sided. Bigger following =/= canon.

Unless, you were going by the same principle and saying: Shiznat (one sided), but I'd get mauld by hundreds.


Last edited by SpiralDasher on Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:50 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Which pairing is canon and which fanon (known as crack too)?

Post by Ris on Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:49 pm

SpiralDasher wrote:Shiznat is left up to the interpretation of the audience, but we all know Takeda has the hots for Natsuki, but it's forever one-sided. Bigger following =/= canon.

It's left up to interpretation of the audience whether Shizuru has the hots for Natsuki?

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Re: Which pairing is canon and which fanon (known as crack too)?

Post by SpiralDasher on Thu Jan 05, 2012 8:50 pm

Ris wrote:
SpiralDasher wrote:Shiznat is left up to the interpretation of the audience, but we all know Takeda has the hots for Natsuki, but it's forever one-sided. Bigger following =/= canon.

It's left up to interpretation of the audience whether Shizuru has the hots for Natsuki?
Seems you posted as I was editing my own.

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Re: Which pairing is canon and which fanon (known as crack too)?

Post by Ris on Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:01 pm

SpiralDasher wrote:Seems you posted as I was editing my own.

Yeah, that ShizNat is at least as canon as Natsuki x Takeda is what I was saying.

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Re: Which pairing is canon and which fanon (known as crack too)?

Post by SpiralDasher on Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:08 pm

Ris wrote:
SpiralDasher wrote:Seems you posted as I was editing my own.

Yeah, that ShizNat is at least as canon as Natsuki x Takeda is what I was saying.
I agree. =)

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Re: Which pairing is canon and which fanon (known as crack too)?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:44 am

SpiralDasher wrote:but we all know Takeda has the hots for Natsuki, but it's forever one-sided. Bigger following =/= canon.

Unless, you were going by the same principle and saying: Shiznat (one sided), but I'd get mauld by hundreds.

Truth be told, I wouldn't mind Takeda x Natsuki stories. :3 It's nice to see the hopeless male getting the girl he wants in certain anime/manga series. I'm pretty luke warm to the idea; knowing Natsuki's manga incarnation is straight as an arrow.

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Re: Which pairing is canon and which fanon (known as crack too)?

Post by Magus Phantalus on Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:29 pm

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:
SpiralDasher wrote:but we all know Takeda has the hots for Natsuki, but it's forever one-sided. Bigger following =/= canon.

Unless, you were going by the same principle and saying: Shiznat (one sided), but I'd get mauld by hundreds.

Truth be told, I wouldn't mind Takeda x Natsuki stories. :3 It's nice to see the hopeless male getting the girl he wants in certain anime/manga series. I'm pretty luke warm to the idea; knowing Natsuki's manga incarnation is straight as an arrow.

To each there own. (said through gritted teeth)

I'm getting better at that I didn't put my fist through anything. Yay for improvement and toleration!

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Re: Which pairing is canon and which fanon (known as crack too)?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:58 pm

Magus Phantalus wrote:To each there own. (said through gritted teeth)

I'm getting better at that I didn't put my fist through anything. Yay for improvement and toleration!

XDDD Think of it this way, if the leader of the ShizNation can accept crack couples that involve Shizuru and Natsuki, then he sure came a long way. This is no different than I feel about my other favorite gay (heck, any type) couples from other anime/manga franchises.

ShizNat is my favorite couple and the one I believe strongly in. Still it doesn't hurt to delve deep within the imagination of fans from time to time. :3 Just remember who got the rejection letter in Natsuki no Prelude, Magus. ^_~ Then breathe a magnificent sigh of relief.

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Re: Which pairing is canon and which fanon (known as crack too)?

Post by Magus Phantalus on Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:31 pm

Aw I was just kidding around Luu (mostly) its all good.

I've never read? Natsuki no Prelude is it on this site?

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Re: Which pairing is canon and which fanon (known as crack too)?

Post by SpiralDasher on Fri Jan 06, 2012 5:36 pm

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:It's nice to see the hopeless male getting the girl he wants in certain anime/manga series.

Read some Mai/Tate fics. =3

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Re: Which pairing is canon and which fanon (known as crack too)?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Fri Jan 06, 2012 6:04 pm

Magus Phantalus wrote:Aw I was just kidding around Luu (mostly) its all good.

I've never read? Natsuki no Prelude is it on this site?

Close, it's on ShizNat Webs. :) Read and hope you like it:

Natsuki no Prelude

SpiralDasher wrote:
Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:It's nice to see the hopeless male getting the girl he wants in certain anime/manga series.

Read some Mai/Tate fics. =3

=3 Recommend me a good one, Dash? ;3

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Re: Which pairing is canon and which fanon (known as crack too)?

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