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In-Depth Mai HiME Character Discussion

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Re: In-Depth Mai HiME Character Discussion

Post by MissSoccerNinja on Sat Oct 29, 2011 11:35 pm

MidnightPersona wrote:
OH! I also hate how FAN-VERSION of Haruka is done. Y U SHIZNATNAO FANS ABUSE HER SO!?!

Sidenote: No offense meant to anyone, I am being general not specific. xD

No offense taken! =]

I abuse Haruka because I love her! Her strength and righteous badass-ness is very admirable.

As is apparent in most of my fanfiction, I make fun of the characters I really like (except for Shizuru, who is perfect in every way, so it's impossible for me to make fun of her). =P The characters I like the most are Natsuki, Shizuru, and Mai. Other characters that I like are Yuuichi, Mikoto, Haruka, and Yukino. In "Bathing Suits, Chivalry, and... Zanpakto's? A Mai-Hime Pool Party!" I make fun of Yuuichi a lot. He can't catch a break in that fanfic. And in every fanfiction I write, Natsuki is a mess around Shizuru. It's pathetic. ;P And in "I Love You Shizuru Fujino," Mai is...well.............let's just say that I make fun of her a lot. XD Looking back on things I've published (and things I haven't yet) I guess I usually use Haruka as a plot device, with her interacting with Shizuru, Natsuki, and Mai, but that's only because I usuallly just write Shiznat fanfiction.
On another note, you've got to admit, Haruka's so easy to make fun of! (Especially her malapropisms.)

I guess my point is: I "abuse" Haruka because I love her, and she's wicked easy to make fun of. =P =]

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Re: In-Depth Mai HiME Character Discussion

Post by MidnightPersona on Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:42 am

MissSoccerNinja wrote:(except for Shizuru, who is perfect in every way, so it's impossible for me to make fun of her)

:gives you the 'are you fucking serious' face: Umm... did we watch the same anime? xD Shizuru is FAR from perfect. No one is perfect. What makes one able to relate to Shizuru is her IMPERFECTIONS. I mean, if she wasn't imperfect she wouldn't be believable, nor would she have lost it at the confrontation with HaruKino, and should would've never hid her feelings and taken advantage of Kuga because she'd be confident enough to know rejection? Not possible.

But is she a good charatcer? Yes. But I dislike the fan-version of her, as I've repeted a lot tonight.

Honestly, I could bare to read your story. Not only did the bleach reference throw me off, but I couldn't get into it. Nothing against you, of course, I can try reading it again, but my reaction may be the same. Not my personal style, of course.

Not that that's an issue to me, but that's the ISSUE with ShizNat fans mostly. Writing Shizuru (and/or Natsuki) as perfect when, in reality, they're just as imperfect as anyone else. When in a normal situation, Shizuru just hides her imperfections better than most, but they're always there.

It's why these characters rock.


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Re: In-Depth Mai HiME Character Discussion

Post by MissSoccerNinja on Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:10 am

MidnightPersona wrote:
MissSoccerNinja wrote:Yuuichi does not fail at dying admirably.

He does, actually. He runs away from his problems and decided it's better for him to DIE than to try and explain to both the girls that he did them both wrong. so...

Tate fails at dying admirably.

(It's bad I can feel worse about Kazu's death. xD)

As a Yuuichi fan (who used to hate Yuuichi with a passion), I disagree. =] To pull some of my post from the "In Defense of Tate Yuuichi" thread, I think he dies admirably because when he dies, he stops running away from his problems. Yuuichi realizes that he has screwed up and lead both girls on, which has contributed to the mess of Mai and Shiho fighting. He realizes that he's the problem, and by him dying, the problem (of him) will be gone. (If he were to explain that he's sorry he's lead them on, that wouldn't really do anything. They'd still be fighting. The problem (him) would still be there to fight over.) He's scared of dying ("It's scary...to die...") but he does so anyways, without complaint. In my opinion, admirably. (I've elaborated further on my point of view in the "In Defense of Tate Yuuichi" thread.)

MidnightPersona wrote:
MissSoccerNinja wrote:Yukino fails at using Diana's powers to watch Haruka doing (Cough!NAKED!Cough!) things... (Or does she...? Shizuru mentioned something about Yukino using Diana to spy on others...I wonder what she meant by that...) =P

Yukino WINS at respecting no ones privacy but the girl she loves... xD

I never thought about it that way! This is an awesome point! I agree! X3

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Re: In-Depth Mai HiME Character Discussion

Post by MidnightPersona on Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:30 am

MissSoccerNinja wrote:
MidnightPersona wrote:
MissSoccerNinja wrote:Yuuichi does not fail at dying admirably.

He does, actually. He runs away from his problems and decided it's better for him to DIE than to try and explain to both the girls that he did them both wrong. so...

Tate fails at dying admirably.

(It's bad I can feel worse about Kazu's death. xD)

As a Yuuichi fan (who used to hate Yuuichi with a passion), I disagree. =] To pull some of my post from the "In Defense of Tate Yuuichi" thread, I think he dies admirably because when he dies, he stops running away from his problems. Yuuichi realizes that he has screwed up and lead both girls on, which has contributed to the mess of Mai and Shiho fighting. He realizes that he's the problem, and by him dying, the problem (of him) will be gone. (If he were to explain that he's sorry he's lead them on, that wouldn't really do anything. They'd still be fighting. The problem (him) would still be there to fight over.) He's scared of dying ("It's scary...to die...") but he does so anyways, without complaint. In my opinion, admirably. (I've elaborated further on my point of view in the "In Defense of Tate Yuuichi" thread.)

His desire to DIE just so they STOP FIGHTING is weak. I do not hate Tate, but I HATED that decision and found it weak and heartless to both the girls. I can never respect it. I apologize.

Also, I will not read/look at a thread that does not allow the opposite view-point. I do not want an 'anti-Tate' thread but damn, I don't wanna get steamrolled for stating he isn't all that great. I LIKE him, I really DO, but his death was NOT admirable, to me at least. Just my opinion, though. But, to me, his 'suicide' wasn't anything to be 'happy' over or respect.

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Re: In-Depth Mai HiME Character Discussion

Post by MissSoccerNinja on Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:47 am

MidnightPersona wrote:
MissSoccerNinja wrote:
MidnightPersona wrote:
MissSoccerNinja wrote:Yuuichi does not fail at dying admirably.

He does, actually. He runs away from his problems and decided it's better for him to DIE than to try and explain to both the girls that he did them both wrong. so...

Tate fails at dying admirably.

(It's bad I can feel worse about Kazu's death. xD)

As a Yuuichi fan (who used to hate Yuuichi with a passion), I disagree. =] To pull some of my post from the "In Defense of Tate Yuuichi" thread, I think he dies admirably because when he dies, he stops running away from his problems. Yuuichi realizes that he has screwed up and lead both girls on, which has contributed to the mess of Mai and Shiho fighting. He realizes that he's the problem, and by him dying, the problem (of him) will be gone. (If he were to explain that he's sorry he's lead them on, that wouldn't really do anything. They'd still be fighting. The problem (him) would still be there to fight over.) He's scared of dying ("It's scary...to die...") but he does so anyways, without complaint. In my opinion, admirably. (I've elaborated further on my point of view in the "In Defense of Tate Yuuichi" thread.)

His desire to DIE just so they STOP FIGHTING is weak. I do not hate Tate, but I HATED that decision and found it weak and heartless to both the girls. I can never respect it. I apologize.

Also, I will not read/look at a thread that does not allow the opposite view-point. I do not want an 'anti-Tate' thread but damn, I don't wanna get steamrolled for stating he isn't all that great. I LIKE him, I really DO, but his death was NOT admirable, to me at least. Just my opinion, though. But, to me, his 'suicide' wasn't anything to be 'happy' over or respect.

That's true. I can see why you wouldn't want to check it out. (I personally have difficulty not responding to threads that I read.)

What else could Yuuichi have done? And what would the effect (of that action) be on the situation? (His death caused Mai and Shiho to stop fighting. But is there another way that could have been accomplished?)

More imporantly, his action would also have to accomplish the plot point of Mai defeating Shiho. Shiho (and everybody else but Mai) has to be defeated in order for the plot to progress. Aristotle did say in The Poetics that plot is the most important element (of theatre, which I believe includes anime, tv shows, etc.). Could Shiho have been defeated without Yuuichi dying?

Also, consider how this new resolution would have an affect on the viewers, not just people like you, but other people such as Yuuichi fans, and, people who like drama, action, and excitement in anime (not to say that you don't).

If Yuuichi were to just apologise, and everything was A-OK between everybody...where would the action, the drama be? It seems anti-climactic to me.

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Re: In-Depth Mai HiME Character Discussion

Post by MissSoccerNinja on Sun Oct 30, 2011 3:26 am

MidnightPersona wrote:
MissSoccerNinja wrote:(except for Shizuru, who is perfect in every way, so it's impossible for me to make fun of her)

:gives you the 'are you fucking serious' face: Umm... did we watch the same anime? xD Shizuru is FAR from perfect. No one is perfect. What makes one able to relate to Shizuru is her IMPERFECTIONS. I mean, if she wasn't imperfect she wouldn't be believable, nor would she have lost it at the confrontation with HaruKino, and should would've never hid her feelings and taken advantage of Kuga because she'd be confident enough to know rejection? Not possible.

But is she a good charatcer? Yes. But I dislike the fan-version of her, as I've repeted a lot tonight.

Honestly, I could bare to read your story. Not only did the bleach reference throw me off, but I couldn't get into it. Nothing against you, of course, I can try reading it again, but my reaction may be the same. Not my personal style, of course.

Not that that's an issue to me, but that's the ISSUE with ShizNat fans mostly. Writing Shizuru (and/or Natsuki) as perfect when, in reality, they're just as imperfect as anyone else. When in a normal situation, Shizuru just hides her imperfections better than most, but they're always there.

It's why these characters rock.


I meant it as a joke. Hence the smiley face after it in the original post. =P

Sorry if I got on your nerves.

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Re: In-Depth Mai HiME Character Discussion

Post by she-ga-roo on Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:14 pm

MidnightPersona wrote:
MissSoccerNinja wrote:(except for Shizuru, who is perfect in every way, so it's impossible for me to make fun of her)

:gives you the 'are you fucking serious' face: Umm... did we watch the same anime? xD Shizuru is FAR from perfect. No one is perfect.....

i think what MissSoccerNinja means is: shizuru is perfect, BECAUSE she's not perfect.
(if you didn't mean it like that MissSoccerNinja, i'm sorry for misinterpretation sweatdrop )
well, at least i see it that way. fact is fact: she isn't perfect, but this inperfection of hers makes her perfect in my eyes... does that make any sense at all?! oO

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to merge to places

Post by MidnightPersona on Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:44 pm

MissSoccerNinja wrote:
MidnightPersona wrote:
MissSoccerNinja wrote:
MidnightPersona wrote:
MissSoccerNinja wrote:Yuuichi does not fail at dying admirably.

He does, actually. He runs away from his problems and decided it's better for him to DIE than to try and explain to both the girls that he did them both wrong. so...

Tate fails at dying admirably.

(It's bad I can feel worse about Kazu's death. xD)

As a Yuuichi fan (who used to hate Yuuichi with a passion), I disagree. =] To pull some of my post from the "In Defense of Tate Yuuichi" thread, I think he dies admirably because when he dies, he stops running away from his problems. Yuuichi realizes that he has screwed up and lead both girls on, which has contributed to the mess of Mai and Shiho fighting. He realizes that he's the problem, and by him dying, the problem (of him) will be gone. (If he were to explain that he's sorry he's lead them on, that wouldn't really do anything. They'd still be fighting. The problem (him) would still be there to fight over.) He's scared of dying ("It's scary...to die...") but he does so anyways, without complaint. In my opinion, admirably. (I've elaborated further on my point of view in the "In Defense of Tate Yuuichi" thread.)

His desire to DIE just so they STOP FIGHTING is weak. I do not hate Tate, but I HATED that decision and found it weak and heartless to both the girls. I can never respect it. I apologize.

Also, I will not read/look at a thread that does not allow the opposite view-point. I do not want an 'anti-Tate' thread but damn, I don't wanna get steamrolled for stating he isn't all that great. I LIKE him, I really DO, but his death was NOT admirable, to me at least. Just my opinion, though. But, to me, his 'suicide' wasn't anything to be 'happy' over or respect.

That's true. I can see why you wouldn't want to check it out. (I personally have difficulty not responding to threads that I read.)

What else could Yuuichi have done? And what would the effect (of that action) be on the situation? (His death caused Mai and Shiho to stop fighting. But is there another way that could have been accomplished?)

More imporantly, his action would also have to accomplish the plot point of Mai defeating Shiho. Shiho (and everybody else but Mai) has to be defeated in order for the plot to progress. Aristotle did say in The Poetics that plot is the most important element (of theatre, which I believe includes anime, tv shows, etc.). Could Shiho have been defeated without Yuuichi dying?

Also, consider how this new resolution would have an affect on the viewers, not just people like you, but other people such as Yuuichi fans, and, people who like drama, action, and excitement in anime (not to say that you don't).

If Yuuichi were to just apologise, and everything was A-OK between everybody...where would the action, the drama be? It seems anti-climactic to me.

I want to reply to this, I REALLY do, but I'm gonna have to see about making a split thread or something for this. Not sure what to make the thread about atm, but I will. Once I come to a decision I will move the posts to that thread and PM you so we can continue this. xD

Everyone else: Carry on with the game.

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Re: In-Depth Mai HiME Character Discussion

Post by MidnightPersona on Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:47 pm

she-ga-roo wrote:
MidnightPersona wrote:
MissSoccerNinja wrote:(except for Shizuru, who is perfect in every way, so it's impossible for me to make fun of her)

:gives you the 'are you fucking serious' face: Umm... did we watch the same anime? xD Shizuru is FAR from perfect. No one is perfect.....

i think what MissSoccerNinja means is: shizuru is perfect, BECAUSE she's not perfect.
(if you didn't mean it like that MissSoccerNinja, i'm sorry for misinterpretation sweatdrop )
well, at least i see it that way. fact is fact: she isn't perfect, but this inperfection of hers makes her perfect in my eyes... does that make any sense at all?! oO

It does make sense, but wording something as 'perfect' leads to very simple misinterpretation. ;D I tend to say 'Perfection in Imperfection' which doesn't make much more sense, but it does to me.

We need a thread somewhere about this topic xD What were we originally discussing?

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Re: In-Depth Mai HiME Character Discussion

Post by MissSoccerNinja on Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:55 pm

MidnightPersona wrote:
she-ga-roo wrote:
MidnightPersona wrote:
MissSoccerNinja wrote:(except for Shizuru, who is perfect in every way, so it's impossible for me to make fun of her)

:gives you the 'are you fucking serious' face: Umm... did we watch the same anime? xD Shizuru is FAR from perfect. No one is perfect.....

i think what MissSoccerNinja means is: shizuru is perfect, BECAUSE she's not perfect.
(if you didn't mean it like that MissSoccerNinja, i'm sorry for misinterpretation sweatdrop )
well, at least i see it that way. fact is fact: she isn't perfect, but this inperfection of hers makes her perfect in my eyes... does that make any sense at all?! oO

It does make sense, but wording something as 'perfect' leads to very simple misinterpretation. ;D I tend to say 'Perfection in Imperfection' which doesn't make much more sense, but it does to me.

We need a thread somewhere about this topic xD What were we originally discussing?

I can see how you would interpret "perfect" as flawlessness. This is where we differ in this viewpoint: I think I use a much more loose interpretation of the word (perfect) that focuses less on flawlessness and more in endearment/love.

MidnightPersona wrote:
Honestly, I could bare to read your story. Not only did the bleach reference throw me off, but I couldn't get into it. Nothing against you, of course, I can try reading it again, but my reaction may be the same. Not my personal style, of course.


Ouch...I have to be honest with you, after reading this last night, I was honestly considering leaving this forum. That would have been purely my fault though. I'll explain:

After getting a good night's rest, and coming back to this forum to only defend my home-boy Yuuichi =P more in another thread we were discussing things in, I saw the colors of our names, and thought: "Hmm...my name is brown, for Team Shizuru...." I've always thought of myself as more of a Natsuki, but this conversation made me realize, at the moment, I feel more like a Shizuru.

One of my personal interpretations of Shizuru (which is purely based off of my own interpretation, which really stems from myself) is that she has a lot of pride. (Perhaps even enough to be considered "haughty" by some. But I don't see her like this. I admire and appreciate her confidence.)

In this discussion, I have never once seen my viewpoint as entirely wrong. This reminds me of how Shizuru stood and listened to Haruka during ep. 24, during the Carnival, (Yes, you're Haruka in this situation =]) yet her viewpoint was unyielding. She was going to continue to take care of Natsuki (and ignore her Student Council responsibilities) no matter what Haruka said. I think that both Haruka (who stated that Shizuru had abandoned her responsiblities as kaichou) and Shizuru were correct in their argument in their conversation (and both of us were as well).

Then you found my weakness. I wish I could be as calm and collected as Shizuru was ("Say whatever you want about me, just don't bring Natsuki into this.") While Haruka found Shizuru's weakness (Natsuki) and made her lose her cool, you found my weekness (my sensitivity about my writing), and caused me to lose my cool.

Why I said "I wish I could be as calm and collected as Shizuru" is because Shizuru's trigger was Haruka dissing Natsuki, and my trigger was you dissing me. Haruka criticized Shizuru, and she never batted an eyelash at it. Yet when you criticized me, I got hurt. (This is one of the reasons why I admire Shizuru's self-confidence. But I do realize that she's not confident all the time about everything.)

I've also realized that people with a lot of pride can be hurt easily.


Last edited by MissSoccerNinja on Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:14 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: In-Depth Mai HiME Character Discussion

Post by she-ga-roo on Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:03 pm

MidnightPersona wrote:

We need a thread somewhere about this topic xD What were we originally discussing?[/color]

so true, haha! sweatdrop

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Re: In-Depth Mai HiME Character Discussion

Post by MidnightPersona on Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:42 pm

MissSoccerNinja wrote:
MidnightPersona wrote:
Honestly, I could bare to read your story. Not only did the bleach reference throw me off, but I couldn't get into it. Nothing against you, of course, I can try reading it again, but my reaction may be the same. Not my personal style, of course.


Ouch...I have to be honest with you, after reading this last night, I was honestly considering leaving this forum. That would have been purely my fault though. I'll explain:

After getting a good night's rest, and coming back to this forum to only defend my home-boy Yuuichi =P more in another thread we were discussing things in, I saw the colors of our names, and thought: "Hmm...my name is brown, for Team Shizuru...." I've always thought of myself as more of a Natsuki, but this conversation made me realize, at the moment, I feel more like a Shizuru.

One of my personal interpretations of Shizuru (which is purely based off of my own interpretation, which really stems from myself) is that she has a lot of pride. (Perhaps even enough to be considered "haughty" by some. But I don't see her like this. I admire and appreciate her confidence.)

In this discussion, I have never once seen my viewpoint as entirely wrong. This reminds me of how Shizuru stood and listened to Haruka during ep. 24, during the Carnival, (Yes, you're Haruka in this situation =]) yet her viewpoint was unyielding. She was going to continue to take care of Natsuki (and ignore her Student Council responsibilities) no matter what Haruka said. I think that both Haruka (who stated that Shizuru had abandoned her responsiblities as kaichou) and Shizuru were correct in their argument in their conversation (and both of us were as well).

Then you found my weakness. I wish I could be as calm and collected as Shizuru was ("Say whatever you want about me, just don't bring Natsuki into this.") While Haruka found Shizuru's weakness (Natsuki) and made her lose her cool, you found my weekness (my sensitivity about my writing), and caused me to lose my cool.

Why I said "I wish I could be as calm and collected as Shizuru" is because Shizuru's trigger was Haruka dissing Natsuki, and my trigger was you dissing me. Haruka criticized Shizuru, and she never batted an eyelash at it. Yet when you criticized me, I got hurt. (This is one of the reasons why I admire Shizuru's self-confidence. But I do realize that she's not confident all the time about everything.)

I've also realized that people with a lot of pride can be hurt easily.

:blinks: I wasn't trying to find a weakness or anything, if you had left I would've felt terrible. xD Wow, that really kinda hurts me. :/ I mean, I'm glad you didn't leave, but I REALLY tried to make it clear that your story just wasn't *my* thing, not that it was BAD and that I was gonna try to re-read it with a kinda different mindset... I really had no intent to be to Haruka OR say you did anything wrong/were wrong. Ah, this is why I get misunderstood so easily. ^^; If you feel I insult you in the future do me a favor and please, inquire of me what I meant. I tend to fail at explaining myself, but I tend to mean no hard. x3

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merging to somewhere else

Post by MissSoccerNinja on Sun Oct 30, 2011 3:40 pm

MidnightPersona wrote:
MissSoccerNinja wrote:
MidnightPersona wrote:
Honestly, I could bare to read your story. Not only did the bleach reference throw me off, but I couldn't get into it. Nothing against you, of course, I can try reading it again, but my reaction may be the same. Not my personal style, of course.


Ouch...I have to be honest with you, after reading this last night, I was honestly considering leaving this forum. That would have been purely my fault though. I'll explain:

After getting a good night's rest, and coming back to this forum to only defend my home-boy Yuuichi =P more in another thread we were discussing things in, I saw the colors of our names, and thought: "Hmm...my name is brown, for Team Shizuru...." I've always thought of myself as more of a Natsuki, but this conversation made me realize, at the moment, I feel more like a Shizuru.

One of my personal interpretations of Shizuru (which is purely based off of my own interpretation, which really stems from myself) is that she has a lot of pride. (Perhaps even enough to be considered "haughty" by some. But I don't see her like this. I admire and appreciate her confidence.)

In this discussion, I have never once seen my viewpoint as entirely wrong. This reminds me of how Shizuru stood and listened to Haruka during ep. 24, during the Carnival, (Yes, you're Haruka in this situation =]) yet her viewpoint was unyielding. She was going to continue to take care of Natsuki (and ignore her Student Council responsibilities) no matter what Haruka said. I think that both Haruka (who stated that Shizuru had abandoned her responsiblities as kaichou) and Shizuru were correct in their argument in their conversation (and both of us were as well).

Then you found my weakness. I wish I could be as calm and collected as Shizuru was ("Say whatever you want about me, just don't bring Natsuki into this.") While Haruka found Shizuru's weakness (Natsuki) and made her lose her cool, you found my weekness (my sensitivity about my writing), and caused me to lose my cool.

Why I said "I wish I could be as calm and collected as Shizuru" is because Shizuru's trigger was Haruka dissing Natsuki, and my trigger was you dissing me. Haruka criticized Shizuru, and she never batted an eyelash at it. Yet when you criticized me, I got hurt. (This is one of the reasons why I admire Shizuru's self-confidence. But I do realize that she's not confident all the time about everything.)

I've also realized that people with a lot of pride can be hurt easily.

:blinks: I wasn't trying to find a weakness or anything, if you had left I would've felt terrible. xD Wow, that really kinda hurts me. :/ I mean, I'm glad you didn't leave, but I REALLY tried to make it clear that your story just wasn't *my* thing, not that it was BAD and that I was gonna try to re-read it with a kinda different mindset... I really had no intent to be to Haruka OR say you did anything wrong/were wrong. Ah, this is why I get misunderstood so easily. ^^; If you feel I insult you in the future do me a favor and please, inquire of me what I meant. I tend to fail at explaining myself, but I tend to mean no hard. x3

It's no problem. =] I know you didn't mean anything personal by it. I remembered you saying that you often are misunderstood, so I knew that you didn't mean it in a bad way, and had no bad intentions. I respect your opinion. You said it very diplomatically too. (I'm just wicked sensitive, which I've always known.)

Don't worry, I don't want you to read my stuff. =P I'd hate for you to force yourself to read something you don't like. I know I wouldn't. That would defeat the point of fanfiction (which I think is that it's supposed to be enjoyable for the reader).

The reason why I brought this up is because this situation just made me realize that there are different points to my interpretation of Shizuru (and different points to me) that I hadn't realized existed. (Which I think is a very good thing, that I've been able to realize these points!) =]

You're right, we really do need a thread for this. =P

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In-Depth Mai HiME Character Discussion

Post by MidnightPersona on Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:13 pm

So, this thread was made because MissSoccerNinja and I kept getting hard core with analyzing characters EVERYWHERE! So here's a thread for EVERYONE to have In-Depth discussions about any/all HiME Characters. I also suggest reading Ookamidesu's Psycho-Analysis's cuz they're awesome.

Dye's Psycho Analysis of Tate Yuichi

Dye's Psycho-Analysis of Miyu Greer

Dye's Psycho-Analysis of Midori Suigura

So, now... anyone have anything to say? Or MSN and I can continue. xD

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Re: In-Depth Mai HiME Character Discussion

Post by ookamidesu on Sun Oct 30, 2011 6:53 pm

MissSoccerNinja wrote:What else could Yuuichi have done? And what would the effect (of that action) be on the situation? (His death caused Mai and Shiho to stop fighting. But is there another way that could have been accomplished?)

More imporantly, his action would also have to accomplish the plot point of Mai defeating Shiho. Shiho (and everybody else but Mai) has to be defeated in order for the plot to progress. Aristotle did say in The Poetics that plot is the most important element (of theatre, which I believe includes anime, tv shows, etc.). Could Shiho have been defeated without Yuuichi dying?

Also, consider how this new resolution would have an affect on the viewers, not just people like you, but other people such as Yuuichi fans, and, people who like drama, action, and excitement in anime (not to say that you don't).

If Yuuichi were to just apologise, and everything was A-OK between everybody...where would the action, the drama be? It seems anti-climactic to me.

If memory serves right, Mai DIDN'T land the killing blow which caused Tate to die. Mikoto did. I don't know if I'd classify his death as admirable. Respectable, mayhaps... but I don't know about admirable. For me, it seemed more like he was running away. I mean, yes -- if he died, then Shiho and Mai wouldn't really have a reason to fight anymore... except that the carnival is still happening and that they would still HAVE to fight until only one HiME remains standing. But the thing is, his death does not really solve any issues. And by issues, I mean the underlying feelings on why that battle existed to begin with... not just the fact that the battle was happening. Feelings don't go away just because the person causing them died. In the end, Shiho will still hate Mai for stealing him from her.

Even if Tate did just apologize, I don't think everything would be A-OK between everybody else. For one, Shiho would make sure of that. Shiho has harnessed a bit of jealousy towards Mai... so whether Tate was present or not, those feelings would still be there. I mean, just cause some asshole apologized for hurting me doesn't mean the pain is going to go away. Feelings of animosity will still remain... the want for revenge will still remain... and especially since the HiME star was doing it's voodoo to make people a little insane.

That being said... the plot thing you were getting at where Tate had to die for the plot to progress. I agree. He had to die one of way or another. Why not have a big showdown between two HiMEs where he's screwed either way? It'd be boring to just have Shizuru hunt Shiho or Mai down and kill him via their CHILDs... or to have Mikoto kill him without all that drama.


MidnightPersona wrote:So, this thread was made because MissSoccerNinja and I kept getting hard core with analyzing characters EVERYWHERE! So here's a thread for EVERYONE to have In-Depth discussions about any/all HiME Characters. I also suggest reading Ookamidesu's Psycho-Analysis's cuz they're awesome.

Dye's Psycho Analysis of Tate Yuichi

Dye's Psycho-Analysis of Miyu Greer

Dye's Psycho-Analysis of Midori Suigura

So, now... anyone have anything to say? Or MSN and I can continue. xD

Thanks for the plugs.

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Re: In-Depth Mai HiME Character Discussion

Post by MidnightPersona on Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:07 pm

ookamidesu wrote:If memory serves right, Mai DIDN'T land the killing blow which caused Tate to die. Mikoto did. I don't know if I'd classify his death as admirable. Respectable, mayhaps... but I don't know about admirable. For me, it seemed more like he was running away. I mean, yes -- if he died, then Shiho and Mai wouldn't really have a reason to fight anymore... except that the carnival is still happening and that they would still HAVE to fight until only one HiME remains standing. But the thing is, his death does not really solve any issues. And by issues, I mean the underlying feelings on why that battle existed to begin with... not just the fact that the battle was happening. Feelings don't go away just because the person causing them died. In the end, Shiho will still hate Mai for stealing him from her.

Even if Tate did just apologize, I don't think everything would be A-OK between everybody else. For one, Shiho would make sure of that. Shiho has harnessed a bit of jealousy towards Mai... so whether Tate was present or not, those feelings would still be there. I mean, just cause some asshole apologized for hurting me doesn't mean the pain is going to go away. Feelings of animosity will still remain... the want for revenge will still remain... and especially since the HiME star was doing it's voodoo to make people a little insane.

That being said... the plot thing you were getting at where Tate had to die for the plot to progress. I agree. He had to die one of way or another. Why not have a big showdown between two HiMEs where he's screwed either way? It'd be boring to just have Shizuru hunt Shiho or Mai down and kill him via their CHILDs... or to have Mikoto kill him without all that drama.

^--This. ALL OF THIS. And yes, Mikoto is the one who destroyed Shiho's Child, not Mai~ You explain things so wonderfully. x3

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Re: In-Depth Mai HiME Character Discussion

Post by MissSoccerNinja on Tue Nov 01, 2011 1:16 am

ookamidesu wrote:
MissSoccerNinja wrote:What else could Yuuichi have done? And what would the effect (of that action) be on the situation? (His death caused Mai and Shiho to stop fighting. But is there another way that could have been accomplished?)

More imporantly, his action would also have to accomplish the plot point of Mai defeating Shiho. Shiho (and everybody else but Mai) has to be defeated in order for the plot to progress. Aristotle did say in The Poetics that plot is the most important element (of theatre, which I believe includes anime, tv shows, etc.). Could Shiho have been defeated without Yuuichi dying?

Also, consider how this new resolution would have an affect on the viewers, not just people like you, but other people such as Yuuichi fans, and, people who like drama, action, and excitement in anime (not to say that you don't).

If Yuuichi were to just apologise, and everything was A-OK between everybody...where would the action, the drama be? It seems anti-climactic to me.

If memory serves right, Mai DIDN'T land the killing blow which caused Tate to die. Mikoto did. I don't know if I'd classify his death as admirable. Respectable, mayhaps... but I don't know about admirable. For me, it seemed more like he was running away. I mean, yes -- if he died, then Shiho and Mai wouldn't really have a reason to fight anymore... except that the carnival is still happening and that they would still HAVE to fight until only one HiME remains standing. But the thing is, his death does not really solve any issues. And by issues, I mean the underlying feelings on why that battle existed to begin with... not just the fact that the battle was happening. Feelings don't go away just because the person causing them died. In the end, Shiho will still hate Mai for stealing him from her.

Even if Tate did just apologize, I don't think everything would be A-OK between everybody else. For one, Shiho would make sure of that. Shiho has harnessed a bit of jealousy towards Mai... so whether Tate was present or not, those feelings would still be there. I mean, just cause some asshole apologized for hurting me doesn't mean the pain is going to go away. Feelings of animosity will still remain... the want for revenge will still remain... and especially since the HiME star was doing it's voodoo to make people a little insane.

That being said... the plot thing you were getting at where Tate had to die for the plot to progress. I agree. He had to die one of way or another. Why not have a big showdown between two HiMEs where he's screwed either way? It'd be boring to just have Shizuru hunt Shiho or Mai down and kill him via their CHILDs... or to have Mikoto kill him without all that drama.


MidnightPersona wrote:So, this thread was made because MissSoccerNinja and I kept getting hard core with analyzing characters EVERYWHERE! So here's a thread for EVERYONE to have In-Depth discussions about any/all HiME Characters. I also suggest reading Ookamidesu's Psycho-Analysis's cuz they're awesome.

Dye's Psycho Analysis of Tate Yuichi

Dye's Psycho-Analysis of Miyu Greer

Dye's Psycho-Analysis of Midori Suigura

So, now... anyone have anything to say? Or MSN and I can continue. xD

Thanks for the plugs.

This is true! And I agree, you do explain it very well. =] You make a very good point that the feelings of animosity and vengefullness wouldn't be solved by his death.

I think what I was trying to say was: In spite of this, Shiho's defeat did make Shiho pretty impotent though, so even if she wanted revenge on Mai, a powerless Shiho couldn't do much to Mai and Kagutsuchi.

Don't worry, your memory does serve you well. =] Mikoto is the one who defeats Shiho. I guess I was just trying to convey the point that Shiho had to be defeated, and Mai had to come out on top of everybody. (In order for the plot to progress.)

It's interesting that both you and MidnightPersona see Yuuich's death as running away... (I may have to look at this again with that in mind.) I've always seen it as him facing the problem, but by that point, there wasn't much he could do (the situation had escalated to the point of being too out of control). I see it as him doing the only option that seemed effective at the time. This may be influenced by the event which caused the fight between Mai and Shiho: Yuuichi chose Mai over Shiho (he ran to save Mai in the church instead of meeting Shiho in the park). This action was rude (ditching Shiho), but a decisive action nonetheless.

MidnightPersona: I've had some strange and interesting revelations recently! (And I blame you! =P In a good way. =]) One of them is a possible (personal) character analysis of Haruka.

I've concluded that it might be beneficial to have Haruka Armitage as President of the U.S.... This may have been the candy I ate, but when I saw President Obama taking a bit of a stand on the medicine shortage (which (the shortage) completely appalls me, having heard that some drug companies may be hoarding drugs, such as cancer treatment drugs, to create demand and sell them at higher prices), Incensed by the possible cause of the shortage, I thought: "You know... If Haruka Armitage were president, she'd go to those drug companies and smash them. She wouldn't tolerate this crap. (I see her as being decisive and having a strict sense of justice)."

Thinking about this now, I now think that having Yukino as VP (or even a newly invented position that's even more influential than VP. I only have a vague understanding of the inner workings of the U.S government...) would be a good idea, so she could handle the finer points of the issues involved in being president, and be more diplomatic in her approach to some issues. (I don't see Haruka as dumb by any means, I just see her as a (passionate?) person who could get carried away with something (such as punishing wrongdoers) before completely considering the matter at hand. Which usually doesn't go over well in delicate politics.)

And that's my current, and ever-growing, interpretation of Haruka and Yukino so far.

This having been thought, I'm curious, what are your character analyses of Haruka and Yukino?


Thread: The reason I'm here at 1:00am:

A possible character analysis of Shizuru is that, she could be a "Behind Blue Eyes" (a song by The Who, I'm pretty sure, which was definitely redone by Limp Bizkit) character.

I've recently interpreted Shizuru as possibly being an extremely lonely individual. How could somebody who wears a mask, who has constructed a "Miss Perfect" persona (which is what we, the viewers of My-Hime, see when watching the show), not have trust issues? Why else would she have constructed her persona (which literally means "mask" in latin) to keep people at arms-length? And by keeping people at arms-length, wouldn't this generate a feeling of lonliness?

This thought process may have been brought on because I've been able to stop thinking about Shizuru as a person (I misguidedly, and unrealistically, wish for everybody in the world to be happy and carefree), and to start thinking about Shizuru as a...I'm not sure, I guess, as a test subject to be analyzed.

This may sound crazy (and it probably is...I don't know...do crazy people know their crazy?), but this is my scientific/inquisitive mind looking for intellectual stimulation.

I was finishing a pre-lab (a real pre-lab. Not a Shiznat Chemistry pre-lab. =P) the other night when I turned on the tv. Playing at the time, was a special called "How Evil are You?" There is a point in the research conducted in this program, which I feel might possibly be applicable to Shizuru during the Carnival. I'll post this research and my interpretation of it in a later post (it's past 1am right now, and I should go back to bed).

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Re: In-Depth Mai HiME Character Discussion

Post by MidnightPersona on Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:53 pm

MissSoccerNinja wrote:This is true! And I agree, you do explain it very well. =] You make a very good point that the feelings of animosity and vengefullness wouldn't be solved by his death.

She does that. x3

MissSoccerNinja wrote:I think what I was trying to say was: In spite of this, Shiho's defeat did make Shiho pretty impotent though, so even if she wanted revenge on Mai, a powerless Shiho couldn't do much to Mai and Kagutsuchi.

Mai wouldn't kill Shiho herself, so Shiho could easily find ways to make Mai suffer... but those are dark thoughts.

MissSoccerNinja wrote:Don't worry, your memory does serve you well. =] Mikoto is the one who defeats Shiho. I guess I was just trying to convey the point that Shiho had to be defeated, and Mai had to come out on top of everybody. (In order for the plot to progress.)

When analyzing characters you should stop analyzing plot. ;D They're two TOTALLY different aspects and, well, if you think 'this had to happen for plot' you miss places in the analysis of the character itself that you may have seen if you ignored 'plot progression' and, honestly, it coulda been ANY HiME or anything, had anything went differently. What is written/seen isn't always what should be. ;D

MissSoccerNinja wrote:It's interesting that both you and MidnightPersona see Yuuich's death as running away... (I may have to look at this again with that in mind.)

Great minds think alike, Dye just happens to explain hers better. A lot better.

MissSoccerNinja wrote:I've always seen it as him facing the problem, but by that point, there wasn't much he could do (the situation had escalated to the point of being too out of control). I see it as him doing the only option that seemed effective at the time. This may be influenced by the event which caused the fight between Mai and Shiho: Yuuichi chose Mai over Shiho (he ran to save Mai in the church instead of meeting Shiho in the park). This action was rude (ditching Shiho), but a decisive action nonetheless.

There are ways to fix it and, honestly, it's Tate's fault it even got that way to begin with. It was obvious he knew Shiho's feelings the entire time, so he shoulda been blunt with her. I do not dislike Tate, but I see him as a fool. SOOOOOOOO much he coulda done would have made things simpler, but I just chalk it up to teenage male+hot girl=ignore the less-endowed one. If I think about him too long, I twitch. Dye's psycho-analysis of him is better than anything I can write.

MissSoccerNinja wrote:MidnightPersona: I've had some strange and interesting revelations recently! (And I blame you! =P In a good way. =]) One of them is a possible (personal) character analysis of Haruka.

I've concluded that it might be beneficial to have Haruka Armitage as President of the U.S.... This may have been the candy I ate, but when I saw President Obama taking a bit of a stand on the medicine shortage (which (the shortage) completely appalls me, having heard that some drug companies may be hoarding drugs, such as cancer treatment drugs, to create demand and sell them at higher prices), Incensed by the possible cause of the shortage, I thought: "You know... If Haruka Armitage were president, she'd go to those drug companies and smash them. She wouldn't tolerate this crap. (I see her as being decisive and having a strict sense of justice)."

Thinking about this now, I now think that having Yukino as VP (or even a newly invented position that's even more influential than VP. I only have a vague understanding of the inner workings of the U.S government...) would be a good idea, so she could handle the finer points of the issues involved in being president, and be more diplomatic in her approach to some issues. (I don't see Haruka as dumb by any means, I just see her as a (passionate?) person who could get carried away with something (such as punishing wrongdoers) before completely considering the matter at hand. Which usually doesn't go over well in delicate politics.)

And that's my current, and ever-growing, interpretation of Haruka and Yukino so far.

Well, considering in Otome Yukino was in charge of the Government and Haruka was in charge of the Military (kinda, they couldn't stop her, but Yukino could.) I'd say those would be better positions for the two, but I like the way you think... *debates running for prez*

MissSoccerNinja wrote:This having been thought, I'm curious, what are your character analyses of Haruka and Yukino?

I could write a novel. A. Whole. Fucking. Novel. X3 I have a youtube vid of my reaction to Zwei ep. 2 with Daddy Luu, watch that to see some of my thoughts on the blonde, busty, left-handed, awesome.


MissSoccerNinja wrote:Thread: The reason I'm here at 1:00am:

A possible character analysis of Shizuru is that, she could be a "Behind Blue Eyes" (a song by The Who, I'm pretty sure, which was definitely redone by Limp Bizkit) character.

I've recently interpreted Shizuru as possibly being an extremely lonely individual. How could somebody who wears a mask, who has constructed a "Miss Perfect" persona (which is what we, the viewers of My-Hime, see when watching the show), not have trust issues? Why else would she have constructed her persona (which literally means "mask" in latin) to keep people at arms-length? And by keeping people at arms-length, wouldn't this generate a feeling of lonliness?

This thought process may have been brought on because I've been able to stop thinking about Shizuru as a person (I misguidedly, and unrealistically, wish for everybody in the world to be happy and carefree), and to start thinking about Shizuru as a...I'm not sure, I guess, as a test subject to be analyzed.

This may sound crazy (and it probably is...I don't know...do crazy people know their crazy?), but this is my scientific/inquisitive mind looking for intellectual stimulation.

I was finishing a pre-lab (a real pre-lab. Not a Shiznat Chemistry pre-lab. =P) the other night when I turned on the tv. Playing at the time, was a special called "How Evil are You?" There is a point in the research conducted in this program, which I feel might possibly be applicable to Shizuru during the Carnival. I'll post this research and my interpretation of it in a later post (it's past 1am right now, and I should go back to bed).

I'm gonna say again, when you do think more on it try not to think of 'plot progression' because I believe it hinders the process of TRULY analyzing a character because your using plot to justify actions instead of other things. Also, I agree. Trust issues, issues with trying to be perfect... ah, there's a reason I call myself MidnightPersona other than the game series. A persona is a useful thing, especially the ability to have more than one... but that's a whole other subject. Sorry for digressing.

Shizuru is a creature that fans fuck up too much. In order to understand one character, you need a basic understanding of them all and their interactions.

Ah~ so complex! I love how I can never be offtopic in this thread. xD

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Re: In-Depth Mai HiME Character Discussion

Post by MissSoccerNinja on Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:33 pm

MidnightPersona wrote:
MissSoccerNinja wrote:This is true! And I agree, you do explain it very well. =] You make a very good point that the feelings of animosity and vengefullness wouldn't be solved by his death.

She does that. x3

MissSoccerNinja wrote:I think what I was trying to say was: In spite of this, Shiho's defeat did make Shiho pretty impotent though, so even if she wanted revenge on Mai, a powerless Shiho couldn't do much to Mai and Kagutsuchi.

Mai wouldn't kill Shiho herself, so Shiho could easily find ways to make Mai suffer... but those are dark thoughts.

MissSoccerNinja wrote:Don't worry, your memory does serve you well. =] Mikoto is the one who defeats Shiho. I guess I was just trying to convey the point that Shiho had to be defeated, and Mai had to come out on top of everybody. (In order for the plot to progress.)

When analyzing characters you should stop analyzing plot. ;D They're two TOTALLY different aspects and, well, if you think 'this had to happen for plot' you miss places in the analysis of the character itself that you may have seen if you ignored 'plot progression' and, honestly, it coulda been ANY HiME or anything, had anything went differently. What is written/seen isn't always what should be. ;D

MissSoccerNinja wrote:It's interesting that both you and MidnightPersona see Yuuich's death as running away... (I may have to look at this again with that in mind.)

Great minds think alike, Dye just happens to explain hers better. A lot better.

MissSoccerNinja wrote:I've always seen it as him facing the problem, but by that point, there wasn't much he could do (the situation had escalated to the point of being too out of control). I see it as him doing the only option that seemed effective at the time. This may be influenced by the event which caused the fight between Mai and Shiho: Yuuichi chose Mai over Shiho (he ran to save Mai in the church instead of meeting Shiho in the park). This action was rude (ditching Shiho), but a decisive action nonetheless.

There are ways to fix it and, honestly, it's Tate's fault it even got that way to begin with. It was obvious he knew Shiho's feelings the entire time, so he shoulda been blunt with her. I do not dislike Tate, but I see him as a fool. SOOOOOOOO much he coulda done would have made things simpler, but I just chalk it up to teenage male+hot girl=ignore the less-endowed one. If I think about him too long, I twitch. Dye's psycho-analysis of him is better than anything I can write.

MissSoccerNinja wrote:MidnightPersona: I've had some strange and interesting revelations recently! (And I blame you! =P In a good way. =]) One of them is a possible (personal) character analysis of Haruka.

I've concluded that it might be beneficial to have Haruka Armitage as President of the U.S.... This may have been the candy I ate, but when I saw President Obama taking a bit of a stand on the medicine shortage (which (the shortage) completely appalls me, having heard that some drug companies may be hoarding drugs, such as cancer treatment drugs, to create demand and sell them at higher prices), Incensed by the possible cause of the shortage, I thought: "You know... If Haruka Armitage were president, she'd go to those drug companies and smash them. She wouldn't tolerate this crap. (I see her as being decisive and having a strict sense of justice)."

Thinking about this now, I now think that having Yukino as VP (or even a newly invented position that's even more influential than VP. I only have a vague understanding of the inner workings of the U.S government...) would be a good idea, so she could handle the finer points of the issues involved in being president, and be more diplomatic in her approach to some issues. (I don't see Haruka as dumb by any means, I just see her as a (passionate?) person who could get carried away with something (such as punishing wrongdoers) before completely considering the matter at hand. Which usually doesn't go over well in delicate politics.)

And that's my current, and ever-growing, interpretation of Haruka and Yukino so far.

Well, considering in Otome Yukino was in charge of the Government and Haruka was in charge of the Military (kinda, they couldn't stop her, but Yukino could.) I'd say those would be better positions for the two, but I like the way you think... *debates running for prez*

MissSoccerNinja wrote:This having been thought, I'm curious, what are your character analyses of Haruka and Yukino?

I could write a novel. A. Whole. Fucking. Novel. X3 I have a youtube vid of my reaction to Zwei ep. 2 with Daddy Luu, watch that to see some of my thoughts on the blonde, busty, left-handed, awesome.


MissSoccerNinja wrote:Thread: The reason I'm here at 1:00am:

A possible character analysis of Shizuru is that, she could be a "Behind Blue Eyes" (a song by The Who, I'm pretty sure, which was definitely redone by Limp Bizkit) character.

I've recently interpreted Shizuru as possibly being an extremely lonely individual. How could somebody who wears a mask, who has constructed a "Miss Perfect" persona (which is what we, the viewers of My-Hime, see when watching the show), not have trust issues? Why else would she have constructed her persona (which literally means "mask" in latin) to keep people at arms-length? And by keeping people at arms-length, wouldn't this generate a feeling of lonliness?

This thought process may have been brought on because I've been able to stop thinking about Shizuru as a person (I misguidedly, and unrealistically, wish for everybody in the world to be happy and carefree), and to start thinking about Shizuru as a...I'm not sure, I guess, as a test subject to be analyzed.

This may sound crazy (and it probably is...I don't know...do crazy people know their crazy?), but this is my scientific/inquisitive mind looking for intellectual stimulation.

I was finishing a pre-lab (a real pre-lab. Not a Shiznat Chemistry pre-lab. =P) the other night when I turned on the tv. Playing at the time, was a special called "How Evil are You?" There is a point in the research conducted in this program, which I feel might possibly be applicable to Shizuru during the Carnival. I'll post this research and my interpretation of it in a later post (it's past 1am right now, and I should go back to bed).

I'm gonna say again, when you do think more on it try not to think of 'plot progression' because I believe it hinders the process of TRULY analyzing a character because your using plot to justify actions instead of other things. Also, I agree. Trust issues, issues with trying to be perfect... ah, there's a reason I call myself MidnightPersona other than the game series. A persona is a useful thing, especially the ability to have more than one... but that's a whole other subject. Sorry for digressing.

Shizuru is a creature that fans fuck up too much. In order to understand one character, you need a basic understanding of them all and their interactions.

Ah~ so complex! I love how I can never be offtopic in this thread. xD

True, Mai (probably, but you never know, with how crazy many of the Hime acted during the Carnival) probably wouldn't kill an unarmed Shiho...Actually, I think she could. (What Shiho could do to Mai may be dark thoughts, but what Mai would do to Shiho may be even darker.) Characters like Mikoto know: If you cross angry Carnival-Mai, you face a firey death.
I think it would be unlikely for Shiho to have the mental power/ablility to continue harrassing Mai after she was defeated. When Yuuichi died (actually, even before Yuuichi died. The moment Shiho realized Yuuichi was going to die...) Shiho fainted. An unconscious, powerless (Shiho would have to be powerless to be impotent while unconscious) person seems pretty impotent to me.
Everybody saw Akane after Kazu died. She was a mess. The only person she was hurting was herself, agonizing over how Kazu was dead. They locked her up in (most likely) a mental ward. Miyu sure didn't seem to be worried about Akane trying to get revenge on her.
With this being known about how defeat can affect a hime's mental state and strength, (although I realize Shiho is not Akane) I don't think defeated hime are much trouble to powerful hime.
I forgot what Shiho was doing when the "camera" (in lack of a better term) turned back to her while the most-important-people were re-appearing near the end of the show, but she sure as heck wasn't harrassing Mai.
None of the hime seemed to be in very good shape. If I remember correctly:
Midori was watching TV like a zombie. Akira was bound, shirtless, somewhere. A defenseless Nao was being attacked by some vengeful men. Fumi was...seemingly lifeless on a bed. Yukino was (feel free to correct me on this if I'm wrong. I have a feeling you'll know this one better than me) sadly looking at the Executive Committee arm band Haruka had given her. Shizuru, Natsuki, and Yuikariko were dead...

But who's to say what should be and what shouldn't be? ;] I get your point for this conversation though, because (in my eyes) we are trying to figure out exactly this (what "is" and what "isn't"). We may never come to a complete agreement, but this is really fun and interesting (and is helping me to widen my point of view and increase my understanding and knowledge) all the while. I hope it's interesting for you too! =]

Yuuichi is human. He can't be perfect. He can't handle every situation perfectly. I think his imperfections make him more likable and relatable. (I think I took those words from your book there! =]) I used to hate Yuuichi for his imperfections, until I realized that I just hated myself for my imperfections that I also saw in him (These are my own words. Something that I realized about myself awhile ago).

Wow, I had completely forgotten your username when I chose the word "persona" in my last post! That's really cool! =] It's good to know you and I both have an interest in the word. =]

Wouldn't character interactions be part of the plot? I can see where you're coming from, because Aristotle did write/consider Plot to be more important than Character in a play/script (possibly meaning that they are two different things), but then again just plot doesn't make a play/script. Just Character doesn't make a play/script.

Even more in depth, just a play/script doesn't make a theatrical "production." (The word "play" is often misused to mean "production." A "play/script" is the written dialogue and maybe a few stage directions, only. A "production" is the fully realized, theatrical performance, with actors, lighting, music, etc.) There are many parts of theatrical productions, or movies, or anime, etc., and to understand something in it's fullest form, you must look at all of its parts.

If we were to analyze Shizuru just as (what I believe) you've literally said, we wouldn't have much to analyze. We wouldn't have any actions to base the analysis off of. We wouldnt' really be allowed to analyze her relationships with Natsuki, Haruka, or anybody.

You'd have to think, why would the writers choose Shizuru, specifically, to do this action in the plot? If plot were so unimportant, why didn't they just have Mai defeat Yukino, Nao, and Natsuki? Why didn't they just have Mai defeat everybody and so everything is solved? The plot (Mai wins) would be fulfilled, but it wouldn't make sense (to those who have seen My-Hime). Because that's (I believe) not characteristic of Mai. It would give a totally different image of her than what the writers of Hime gave in Hime.

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Re: In-Depth Mai HiME Character Discussion

Post by MidnightPersona on Thu Nov 03, 2011 12:58 am

MissSoccerNinja wrote:Yukino was (feel free to correct me on this if I'm wrong. I have a feeling you'll know this one better than me) sadly looking at the Executive Committee arm band Haruka had given her.

In Haruka's room, in one of her family's mansions, standing in front of a picture of the two of them while staring at the armband. Nothing was on Yukino's mind other than the girl she loves, and I do believe she would have wasted away at some point, if she couldn't find the will.

ABOUT THE PLOT:

My lovely girlfriend explained to me how my words could've been taken, and you did such. Yes, plot IS important, but you CANNOT think of stuff as 'plot progression' you gotta think of what COULD have been done differently. There are things the character, as human, could've changed. Bah, I feel I am still explaining wrong... I give up on that. xD Or I'll just ask Dye again how she worded it...

ON A SIDE NOTE: I am tired, so not sure if I make any sense, so I cannot get to in-depth atm cuz I just wanted to reply to that bit. Maybe I made sense?

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Re: In-Depth Mai HiME Character Discussion

Post by ookamidesu on Thu Nov 03, 2011 9:39 pm

Mayhaps I could assist with interpreting what Raven meant. (What am I? A translator? When did this happen?)

I think what she meant to say was that... when analyzing a character, one must not think about the actions of a character solely for the purpose of plot progression. But instead, analyze the actions of the character for understand why the character would do such a thing.

So for example, while it is a plot progression for Shiho is go batshit insane and hunt Mai down for a showdown, solely for the purpose of killing Tate off and having one less HiME still "alive" in the Carnival, we shouldn't see it as, "oh-- well that had to happen because the plot said for Mai to be the winner". Instead, let's think of it as... Shiho went batshit insane because she felt Mai took away Tate from her and she has reached the end of her sanity meter and so it happened that this, this, and that happened.

I guess what I'm trying to get across is, when analyzing a character, pretend they are a real person in real life -- forget that their life story was made as entertainment for those eternally bored and in need of something to do -- and look the actions they do as actions they did because they are them... and not because something needs to happen for something else to happen. Pretend there is no plot, pretend it's real life... and we have no idea how everything will play out.

Plot is important in that it allows us to see how each person reacts in a situation... but that's as far as it goes. We are interested in the reaction... not the outcome of the reaction. Because when you look at a character as a character, and not a puppet in a story... well, yeah.

Did I make sense?

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Re: In-Depth Mai HiME Character Discussion

Post by hildebrant on Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:38 pm

You know I really don't want to get into another long drawn out Yuuichi bashing thread, its even gotten to the point where even I'm tired of defending his actions over and over again but I've also made peace with the fact that some people will hate him no matter what or for what he did and there are some people that will defend his actions.

Now I seem to remember in the original topic that MSN writes certain characters in her fanfics. I kind of dislike how you tease Yuuichi in them but there have been far worse ways for him to be written as I could write a novel on how he's been portrayed in fanfiction but I'm not getting into that so thank you for at least being nice to Yuuichi MSN.

In my fics if anyone's interested. They're primarily Yuuichi centric and I either focus on him falling into a depression and wanting nothing to do with the cast or when I can get over such things I write stuff about him and Mai. <I apologize if I'm not on topic and I will accept if this reply is modded>

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Re: In-Depth Mai HiME Character Discussion

Post by ookamidesu on Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:23 pm

hildebrant wrote:You know I really don't want to get into another long drawn out Yuuichi bashing thread, its even gotten to the point where even I'm tired of defending his actions over and over again but I've also made peace with the fact that some people will hate him no matter what or for what he did and there are some people that will defend his actions.

Now I seem to remember in the original topic that MSN writes certain characters in her fanfics. I kind of dislike how you tease Yuuichi in them but there have been far worse ways for him to be written as I could write a novel on how he's been portrayed in fanfiction but I'm not getting into that so thank you for at least being nice to Yuuichi MSN.

In my fics if anyone's interested. They're primarily Yuuichi centric and I either focus on him falling into a depression and wanting nothing to do with the cast or when I can get over such things I write stuff about him and Mai. <I apologize if I'm not on topic and I will accept if this reply is modded>

I'm sorry if you feel if there is Tate-bashing going on in this thread, hildebrant, but I can assure you that it is not (at least, not on my part). I do admit that I will probably never come to understand (and therefore, like) certain actions of his... but I do not hate him at all. I have actually learned a great deal from you, Sergay, and MSN regarding his character. I agree with MSN when she said that no one is flawless and Tate's flaw make him more realistic and relate-able. I can overlook all the other actions as I can somewhat understand them from MSN's explanations (I do read the In Defense of Tate Yuuichi thread, and contrary to popular belief, my psycho-analysis of him was not meant to be a bashing thread also. -_-; ). However, to me, the part of his character where he lead Shiho on was unforgiveable... and this is not because of Tate himself, but because of attribute in a person is what I do not like. I don't like people who lead other people on. ^-^;

I hope I am making sense. It is late, and I am trying to finish writing Shiho's analysis before bed. >.>;

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Re: In-Depth Mai HiME Character Discussion

Post by hildebrant on Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:29 pm

ookamidesu wrote:
hildebrant wrote:You know I really don't want to get into another long drawn out Yuuichi bashing thread, its even gotten to the point where even I'm tired of defending his actions over and over again but I've also made peace with the fact that some people will hate him no matter what or for what he did and there are some people that will defend his actions.

Now I seem to remember in the original topic that MSN writes certain characters in her fanfics. I kind of dislike how you tease Yuuichi in them but there have been far worse ways for him to be written as I could write a novel on how he's been portrayed in fanfiction but I'm not getting into that so thank you for at least being nice to Yuuichi MSN.

In my fics if anyone's interested. They're primarily Yuuichi centric and I either focus on him falling into a depression and wanting nothing to do with the cast or when I can get over such things I write stuff about him and Mai. <I apologize if I'm not on topic and I will accept if this reply is modded>

I'm sorry if you feel if there is Tate-bashing going on in this thread, hildebrant, but I can assure you that it is not (at least, not on my part). I do admit that I will probably never come to understand (and therefore, like) certain actions of his... but I do not hate him at all. I have actually learned a great deal from you, Sergay, and MSN regarding his character. I agree with MSN when she said that no one is flawless and Tate's flaw make him more realistic and relate-able. I can overlook all the other actions as I can somewhat understand them from MSN's explanations (I do read the In Defense of Tate Yuuichi thread, and contrary to popular belief, my psycho-analysis of him was not meant to be a bashing thread also. -_-; ). However, to me, the part of his character where he lead Shiho on was unforgiveable... and this is not because of Tate himself, but because of attribute in a person is what I do not like. I don't like people who lead other people on. ^-^;

I hope I am making sense. It is late, and I am trying to finish writing Shiho's analysis before bed. >.>;


Its fine. Like I said I've made peace with him being both hated and loved and I understand you were only trying to analyze his character in your last thread and I'm glad you learned somethings about him through me and the others. The reason I get touchy about Yuuichi is because Misandry is a touchy subject for me and I hate seeing it and all forms of discrimination, and in the HiME fandom I see alot of Misandry at times. Mostly from fangirls or fanboys who have no problem ripping into the male cast so its something that gets under my skin. However I'm also trying to get over it and put it behind me. So I'm sorry if any wires got crossed in my previous posts

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Re: In-Depth Mai HiME Character Discussion

Post by MidnightPersona on Thu Nov 03, 2011 11:39 pm

hildebrant wrote:
ookamidesu wrote:
hildebrant wrote:You know I really don't want to get into another long drawn out Yuuichi bashing thread, its even gotten to the point where even I'm tired of defending his actions over and over again but I've also made peace with the fact that some people will hate him no matter what or for what he did and there are some people that will defend his actions.

Now I seem to remember in the original topic that MSN writes certain characters in her fanfics. I kind of dislike how you tease Yuuichi in them but there have been far worse ways for him to be written as I could write a novel on how he's been portrayed in fanfiction but I'm not getting into that so thank you for at least being nice to Yuuichi MSN.

In my fics if anyone's interested. They're primarily Yuuichi centric and I either focus on him falling into a depression and wanting nothing to do with the cast or when I can get over such things I write stuff about him and Mai. <I apologize if I'm not on topic and I will accept if this reply is modded>

I'm sorry if you feel if there is Tate-bashing going on in this thread, hildebrant, but I can assure you that it is not (at least, not on my part). I do admit that I will probably never come to understand (and therefore, like) certain actions of his... but I do not hate him at all. I have actually learned a great deal from you, Sergay, and MSN regarding his character. I agree with MSN when she said that no one is flawless and Tate's flaw make him more realistic and relate-able. I can overlook all the other actions as I can somewhat understand them from MSN's explanations (I do read the In Defense of Tate Yuuichi thread, and contrary to popular belief, my psycho-analysis of him was not meant to be a bashing thread also. -_-; ). However, to me, the part of his character where he lead Shiho on was unforgiveable... and this is not because of Tate himself, but because of attribute in a person is what I do not like. I don't like people who lead other people on. ^-^;

I hope I am making sense. It is late, and I am trying to finish writing Shiho's analysis before bed. >.>;


Its fine. Like I said I've made peace with him being both hated and loved and I understand you were only trying to analyze his character in your last thread and I'm glad you learned somethings about him through me and the others. The reason I get touchy about Yuuichi is because Misandry is a touchy subject for me and I hate seeing it and all forms of discrimination, and in the HiME fandom I see alot of Misandry at times. Mostly from fangirls or fanboys who have no problem ripping into the male cast so its something that gets under my skin. However I'm also trying to get over it and put it behind me. So I'm sorry if any wires got crossed in my previous posts

But assuming we're all bashing Tate (which is what *i* got from your words) is a BIT extreme. Like Dye, I cannot forgive his leading on of Shiho. He does things I do not like, but so do a lot of characters. Hell, Haruka and me don't quite get along on some fronts, but her actions I can see in me or my past and I can understand, doesn't mean I agree with her or Yukino all the time, but accepting the character as flawed and being able to discuss it without rage. Mayhaps? xD

And yes, Dye, you are a translator apparently. Teach me your ways, sensei. *bows*

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Re: In-Depth Mai HiME Character Discussion

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