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Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by MissSoccerNinja on Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:49 pm

she-ga-roo wrote:
Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:
MidnightPersona wrote:Honestly, I don't care if something is 'overrated' if it's good. I just hate the abuse she gets from fans. Some people make me sick from how little they seem to know about characters they claim to love, not just Shizuru.

And ShizNat is THAT *damn* good, otherwise nobody would like them. You're right about how much some fans actually know about certain characters. But hey, whatever gets them into the Mai-Series is a good start. Then fans like us with an open mind can guide them properly, y'know?

well, if there's someone who could guide them, it would definitely be you, luu ^^

I second that! Well-said, she-ga-roo. =]


she-ga-roo wrote:if you need help, i would gladly team up behind you as a loyal solier.
if it's necessary armed with negi leek

Good weapon choice! (That would be very scary!) :pale: =] Hopefully it will never have to come to that, though... Even I (who am also a Shiznat fan) would feel very bad for the poor souls who have to face the wrath of the almighty negi... ;P XD

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:00 pm

MissSoccerNinja wrote:Good weapon choice! (That would be very scary!) :pale: =] Hopefully it will never have to come to that, though... Even I (who am also a Shiznat fan) would feel very bad for the poor souls who have to face the wrath of the almighty negi... ;P XD

Natsuki Kuga : Oi! What poor souls?!

Shizuru Kaichou : The...

Spoiler:

...of course, silly Natsuki-chan~ leek

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When Shizuru said "Ara" for the first time, the "Ara" broke into a thousand pieces and they all went skipping about. That was the beginning of fairies.

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by MissSoccerNinja on Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:17 pm

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:
MissSoccerNinja wrote:Good weapon choice! (That would be very scary!) :pale: =] Hopefully it will never have to come to that, though... Even I (who am also a Shiznat fan) would feel very bad for the poor souls who have to face the wrath of the almighty negi... ;P XD

Natsuki Kuga : Oi! What poor souls?!

Shizuru Kaichou : The...

Spoiler:

...of course, silly Natsuki-chan~ leek

Nice! XXXD

Yeah, anybody who provokes a Negi-wielding Shiznat Soldier should talk to Natsuki about the best way to deal with the psychological scarring that comes from being assulted by a negi... X]

Wow, I just had a thought...if the U.S military (or any country's military) used negis, they'd be unstoppable! ... That's probably why negi-warfare was banned the same year biological warfare was banned. The government of every country keeps a supply of the most lethal forms of negi in the same high-security facility they keep their supply of the smallpox virus. Wink

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by she-ga-roo on Thu Nov 03, 2011 1:27 pm

MissSoccerNinja wrote:

Yeah, anybody who provokes a Negi-wielding Shiznat Soldier should talk to Natsuki about the best way to deal with the psychological scarring that comes from being assulted by a negi... X]

Wow, I just had a thought...if the U.S military (or any country's military) used negis, they'd be unstoppable! ... That's probably why negi-warfare was banned the same year biological warfare was banned. The government of every country keeps a supply of the most lethal forms of negi in the same high-security facility they keep their supply of the smallpox virus. Wink

military with negi?! haha, this is too much. why do i have an wraked plot of the battle: los angeles movie in my head right now?! the army fighting aliens with negis... oh shizuru, what did you and your negi do with my poor little brain?! sweatdrop

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by MissSoccerNinja on Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:11 am

she-ga-roo wrote:
MissSoccerNinja wrote:

Yeah, anybody who provokes a Negi-wielding Shiznat Soldier should talk to Natsuki about the best way to deal with the psychological scarring that comes from being assulted by a negi... X]

Wow, I just had a thought...if the U.S military (or any country's military) used negis, they'd be unstoppable! ... That's probably why negi-warfare was banned the same year biological warfare was banned. The government of every country keeps a supply of the most lethal forms of negi in the same high-security facility they keep their supply of the smallpox virus. Wink

military with negi?! haha, this is too much. why do i have an wraked plot of the battle: los angeles movie in my head right now?! the army fighting aliens with negis... oh shizuru, what did you and your negi do with my poor little brain?! sweatdrop

Nice! XD

Sorry, I think I got this thread off topic too... sweatdrop It's my fault. I blame my inablity to focus... psyduck =P

Back on topic,

Could a possible reason some fans hate Shizuru be because some people may consider Shizuru to be a "villain" because of all the things she did during the Carnival (such as defeat Yukino and Nao, destroy 1st District, and kiss Natsuki while Natsuki was sleeping)? I've always been a fan of Shizuru, so I can't answer the question. For those of you who aren't/weren't fans, is/was this a reason for you?

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by SpiralDasher on Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:45 am

I think it's because of the "Kannin na~" ending she got. Bullshit. -_- In my opinion, she got off scott-free after all she did. She should have PTSD at the very least.

She's not the only character to get off lighter than they should have, but that little scene at the end makes me cringe in a "tell me that really didn't just happen..." feel. This is why there should be a sequel- to make a believable ending... and maybe have an awesome new main villain- but I digress...

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:36 am

SpiralDasher wrote:I think it's because of the "Kannin na~" ending she got. Bullshit. -_- In my opinion, she got off scott-free after all she did. She should have PTSD at the very least.

She's not the only character to get off lighter than they should have, but that little scene at the end makes me cringe in a "tell me that really didn't just happen..." feel. This is why there should be a sequel- to make a believable ending... and maybe have an awesome new main villain- but I digress...

When you put it that way, it did feel sort of like an alternate ending...worse, a blooper reel! XD

Hey Kids, have friends thinking you're worse Casey Anthony? No problem, just look them right in the eye and give them these three simple steps:

Spoiler:





Then everybody happy~

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When Shizuru said "Ara" for the first time, the "Ara" broke into a thousand pieces and they all went skipping about. That was the beginning of fairies.

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by MissSoccerNinja on Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:54 am

SpiralDasher wrote:I think it's because of the "Kannin na~" ending she got. Bullshit. -_- In my opinion, she got off scott-free after all she did. She should have PTSD at the very least.

She's not the only character to get off lighter than they should have, but that little scene at the end makes me cringe in a "tell me that really didn't just happen..." feel. This is why there should be a sequel- to make a believable ending... and maybe have an awesome new main villain- but I digress...

I have to agree, it is a pretty bullshit ending. XD I can't seem to look at it practically though... Then again, I also liked Oscar Wilde's play The Importance of Being Earnest (definitely in this play, and I've heard that in general, Wilde is notorious for having ridiculously happy and all conflict-resolved endings). =P
Looking at it in a dark way though, PTSD would be logical for a person who had committed such crimes as Shizuru possibly did...*shudders*

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:
SpiralDasher wrote:I think it's because of the "Kannin na~" ending she got. Bullshit. -_- In my opinion, she got off scott-free after all she did. She should have PTSD at the very least.

She's not the only character to get off lighter than they should have, but that little scene at the end makes me cringe in a "tell me that really didn't just happen..." feel. This is why there should be a sequel- to make a believable ending... and maybe have an awesome new main villain- but I digress...

When you put it that way, it did feel sort of like an alternate ending...worse, a blooper reel! XD

Hey Kids, have friends thinking you're worse Casey Anthony? No problem, just look them right in the eye and give them these three simple steps:

Spoiler:





Then everybody happy~

Nice! XD

That reminds me of a captioned pic of the third picture. It read: "You can't have MANSLAUGHTER without LAUGHTER." XD

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by she-ga-roo on Fri Nov 04, 2011 12:54 pm

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:
SpiralDasher wrote:I think it's because of the "Kannin na~" ending she got. Bullshit. -_- In my opinion, she got off scott-free after all she did. She should have PTSD at the very least.

She's not the only character to get off lighter than they should have, but that little scene at the end makes me cringe in a "tell me that really didn't just happen..." feel. This is why there should be a sequel- to make a believable ending... and maybe have an awesome new main villain- but I digress...

When you put it that way, it did feel sort of like an alternate ending...worse, a blooper reel! XD

Hey Kids, have friends thinking you're worse Casey Anthony? No problem, just look them right in the eye and give them these three simple steps:

Spoiler:





Then everybody happy~

i pretty much think, that this is just a mask of her as well. maybe it's just me, thinking too much into a character, but even if it's never showed, i think that even if that was kind of a WTF?!-ending for us, that shizuru will still feel guilty afterwards. we saw it at the scene with natsuki after they got bak to life: shizuru feels guilty for what she had done (all the killing, damage, what she had/hadn't [we don't know for sure in ep 22] done to natsuki and that she started a fight against her), so i think that this 'kannin na~' didn't portray her real feelings.

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by SpiralDasher on Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:06 pm

Ha... if those were her true feelings, I'd safety say that I'd immediately loathe Shizuru.

But we don't actually know either way, and in my mind, she either confronts Nao and Yukino, or, more true to her nature (imo), she keeps it inside and is tormented by the events and keeps distant for those involved, distancing herself from others once again.

(Must... not... write... PTSD one-shot...)

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by she-ga-roo on Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:09 pm

please don't call me stupid, but what's the meaning of PTSD?
i don't understand most of english shortcuts sweatdrop

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by SpiralDasher on Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:10 pm

she-ga-roo wrote:please don't call me stupid, but what's the meaning of PTSD?
i don't understand most of english shortcuts sweatdrop

"Post Traumatic Stress Disorder" =)

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by she-ga-roo on Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:13 pm

gah! why i didn't see that one?! maybe i'm really just stupid, haha. XD
but thanx ^^

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by SpiralDasher on Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:15 pm

No prob ^^

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by MissSoccerNinja on Fri Nov 04, 2011 10:38 pm

she-ga-roo wrote:gah! why i didn't see that one?! maybe i'm really just stupid, haha. XD
but thanx ^^

Don't worry about it! I have a feeling that I'm pretty safe in saying that: Here (MaiMultiverse), you never have to feel stupid. The people here aren't going to (or at the very least, shouldn't) judge you for anything. =]

I know that I won't judge you. Especially for something as silly/unimportant as knowing or not knowing acronyms. =]

Assuming that you speak German (since the "location" thing under your name says "Germany"), if you were to ask me about acronyms in German, this is how I would probably react:

Me: :shock: "Um.....uh.....well.....German....Germany....Germany did well in the Men's World Cup in 2010...Oh! And Germany hosted the Women's World Cup in 2011! Yay for soccer!" Mikoto Minagi *totally forgets about the original topic of acronyms in German*

The fact that you're writing and at least trying (instead of avoiding and thinking about irrelevant subjects like I would end up doing) to understand acronyms in another language, is really awesome. =]

If you don't speak German or another language besides English, and I made a complete fool out of myself in the previous paragraphs, please forgive me... sweatdrop

she-ga-roo wrote:i pretty much think, that this is just a mask of her as well. maybe it's just me, thinking too much into a character, but even if it's never showed, i think that even if that was kind of a WTF?!-ending for us, that shizuru will still feel guilty afterwards. we saw it at the scene with natsuki after they got bak to life: shizuru feels guilty for what she had done (all the killing, damage, what she had/hadn't [we don't know for sure in ep 22] done to natsuki and that she started a fight against her), so i think that this 'kannin na~' didn't portray her real feelings.

Very well-explained! =]

I agree with you completely on this. As sad as it would be (for Shizuru to have to deal with so much guilt and pain), I think your point is undeniable. Adding a little more (adding a little of my spin) to your point, I think that regardless of what Shizuru did or didn't do in the Carnival, it's quite possible that she would feel guilty (possibly to the point of extremely guilty) about what she had done during the Carnival (because it's undeniable, she defeated Yukino and Nao, consequently killing Haruka and Nao's mother). And also quite possible that she wouldn't share her feelings with anybody. =/


SpiralDasher wrote:Ha... if those were her true feelings, I'd safety say that I'd immediately loathe Shizuru.

I'll have to agree with you here. As much as I love Shizuru, I think I do so because I see her as a good person (at her core. Like...she wouldn't kill just for fun, and she actually has a conscience)**Side Note to general public.

If a smile and a kannin-na were her only "real feelings" (consequently meaning that she was incapable of feeling anything else, or any emotion at all) that would lead me to believe that Shizuru would be a clinical psychopath. I wouldn't loathe her, but I would be scared of her. And I don't think I could truly love somebody that I'm genuinely afraid of...

SpiralDasher wrote:(Must... not... write... PTSD one-shot...)

Don't worry, as sad (for Shizuru) as that would be, it sounds like interesting and very emotional writing. I'm definitely guilty of putting Shizuru through hell in a fanfic (and not in the good/humorous way that ends with her and Natsuki resolving a ridiculous misunderstanding (caused by Natsuki being a goofball/idiot) and eventually ending up together...)

Thread:
**Side Note to general public: (saying that I wouldn't love Shizuru if she didn't have these qualities, wouldn't be completely fair. Because, could you (a person who would say I don't "love" her) "love" a serial killer/psychopath? I seriously doubt that I'd see you if I went to the high-security section of a prison which locks up all the seriously mentally disturbed psychopaths and serial killers...The only people I could understand being there are those psychopath's mothers. But a mother's love is a different story. (I think) A very beautiful thing, yet unconditional to the point of being dangerous, sometimes.)

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by WorthyDrummer on Sat Nov 05, 2011 6:57 am

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:To me, most of the reasons behind it is because of her "overrated" status.
If I had seen this thread earlier than I would of said exactly what you said. Her overratedness. And to a degree she is. She wasnt a major character in Mai HiME, so for Shizuru to be one of the most popular characters would piss off some Mai HiME fans I think.

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by she-ga-roo on Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:33 am

MissSoccerNinja wrote:
she-ga-roo wrote:gah! why i didn't see that one?! maybe i'm really just stupid, haha. XD
but thanx ^^

Don't worry about it! I have a feeling that I'm pretty safe in saying that: Here (MaiMultiverse), you never have to feel stupid. The people here aren't going to (or at the very least, shouldn't) judge you for anything. =]

I know that I won't judge you. Especially for something as silly/unimportant as knowing or not knowing acronyms. =]

Assuming that you speak German (since the "location" thing under your name says "Germany"), if you were to ask me about acronyms in German, this is how I would probably react:

Me: :shock: "Um.....uh.....well.....German....Germany....Germany did well in the Men's World Cup in 2010...Oh! And Germany hosted the Women's World Cup in 2011! Yay for soccer!" Mikoto Minagi *totally forgets about the original topic of acronyms in German*

The fact that you're writing and at least trying (instead of avoiding and thinking about irrelevant subjects like I would end up doing) to understand acronyms in another language, is really awesome. =]

If you don't speak German or another language besides English, and I made a complete fool out of myself in the previous paragraphs, please forgive me... sweatdrop

thanx ^^ but it's right with what the location is telling you. i'm 100% german and so i can say: yeah!, for us hosting the woman's wordlcup this year. sadly we didn't win the third time in a row, but i'm glad japan was champion, cause they where really good in my opinion ^^ okay, that's so off topic sorry. i'm just surprised and kind of glad that some others seems to be interested in woman's soccer... okay, your name is kind a clue sweatdrop

MissSoccerNinja wrote:
she-ga-roo wrote:i pretty much think, that this is just a mask of her as well. maybe it's just me, thinking too much into a character, but even if it's never showed, i think that even if that was kind of a WTF?!-ending for us, that shizuru will still feel guilty afterwards. we saw it at the scene with natsuki after they got bak to life: shizuru feels guilty for what she had done (all the killing, damage, what she had/hadn't [we don't know for sure in ep 22] done to natsuki and that she started a fight against her), so i think that this 'kannin na~' didn't portray her real feelings.

Very well-explained! =]

I agree with you completely on this. As sad as it would be (for Shizuru to have to deal with so much guilt and pain), I think your point is undeniable. Adding a little more (adding a little of my spin) to your point, I think that regardless of what Shizuru did or didn't do in the Carnival, it's quite possible that she would feel guilty (possibly to the point of extremely guilty) about what she had done during the Carnival (because it's undeniable, she defeated Yukino and Nao, consequently killing Haruka and Nao's mother). And also quite possible that she wouldn't share her feelings with anybody. =/

on the other hand... there just hit me one thought: it seems that everyone who want seems to see shizuru as a bad person, because of the killing she had done out of her love for natsuki. i think that this is one of the main problems people who don't like her could have. this 'OMG, she killed so many in cold blood, she's a psycho!' kind of thinking. well, my thought was: if you really see just this part of shizuru which let her appear so negative, what's with natsuki then? if you look closer you come to a fact which would let her appear negative, too:
she killed her best friend and most precious person shizuru.
shizuru defeated yukino and nao, knowing that she'll kill someone with that. but under the circumstances she was in as a HiME she had to do it in order to protect her most precious person. that she went berserk was a bad coincidence which came out of her unstable sanity. okay, she fighted natsuki and knew: 'if i defeat natsuki, then i'll kill SOMEONE.' she didn't know it would be herself, since she thought that natsuki kind of hated her.
but natsuki defeted shizuru, even if she knew she would die since she herself was shizuru's most precious person, but at the same time she let shizuru die.
don't get me wrong, i don't want to say natsuki is a bad person. but like i said, everyone who want to say that shizuru is the bad person, cause she killed some people she didn't knew, with which she had no connection to ( i don't want to say that's a good thing), that with this logic natsuki has to be a bad person too, cause she killed her best friend and love. yes, i say love, cause even if said then that she couldn't love shizuru the way shizuru wanted, that she still loved her in some kind of way.

gah! did i really write all that stuff?! oO and does it make any sense?

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by SpiralDasher on Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:49 am

I seems to have a built in sensor that tells me when to log into sites to respond... o_O Anyway.

she-ga-roo wrote:on the other hand... there just hit me one thought: it seems that everyone who want seems to see shizuru as a bad person, because of the killing she had done out of her love for natsuki. i think that this is one of the main problems people who don't like her could have. this 'OMG, she killed so many in cold blood, she's a psycho!' kind of thinking. well, my thought was: if you really see just this part of shizuru which let her appear so negative, what's with natsuki then? if you look closer you come to a fact which would let her appear negative, too:
she killed her best friend and most precious person shizuru.

The thing with Shizuru murdering is that she went after non-Himes. In Shizuru's case, she tried to kill Nao twice, once when she was no longer a Hime, and the First District people. I think Yukino also went after Mai when Kagu wasn't summoned? I can't remember hers exactly.
That's not quite the same with Natsuki: I think that was Natsuki being a hero and self-sacrificing herself so Mai could win. She knew only only one Hime could be the winner in order to get to the Obsidian Lord, so she sacrificed herself and took on Shizuru.

This is how I interpret it in any case.

she-ga-roo wrote:she didn't know it would be herself, since she thought that natsuki kind of hated her.

She responded to Duran's growth with, "Do you really hate me that much?!" which I take as, Shizuru knew she was Natsuki's MIP, but Shizuru thought the size of the Child had to deal with any strong emotion, not just love.

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by she-ga-roo on Sat Nov 05, 2011 1:00 pm

SpiralDasher wrote:I seems to have a built in sensor that tells me when to log into sites to respond... o_O Anyway.

she-ga-roo wrote:on the other hand... there just hit me one thought: it seems that everyone who want seems to see shizuru as a bad person, because of the killing she had done out of her love for natsuki. i think that this is one of the main problems people who don't like her could have. this 'OMG, she killed so many in cold blood, she's a psycho!' kind of thinking. well, my thought was: if you really see just this part of shizuru which let her appear so negative, what's with natsuki then? if you look closer you come to a fact which would let her appear negative, too:
she killed her best friend and most precious person shizuru.

The thing with Shizuru murdering is that she went after non-Himes. In Shizuru's case, she tried to kill Nao twice, once when she was no longer a Hime, and the First District people. I think Yukino also went after Mai when Kagu wasn't summoned? I can't remember hers exactly.
That's not quite the same with Natsuki: I think that was Natsuki being a hero and self-sacrificing herself so Mai could win. She knew only only one Hime could be the winner in order to get to the Obsidian Lord, so she sacrificed herself and took on Shizuru.

This is how I interpret it in any case.

you're right. i think like that, too. i didn't mean to let natsuki appear in a bad light. i just wanted to compare things. like i said, i like shizuru so i don't know exactly why people might dislike her. but if it is because of the killing-thing, i thought that after this logik natsuki should appear negative, too. gah, i fail at explaining sweatdrop

SpiralDasher wrote:
she-ga-roo wrote:she didn't know it would be herself, since she thought that natsuki kind of hated her.

She responded to Duran's growth with, "Do you really hate me that much?!" which I take as, Shizuru knew she was Natsuki's MIP, but Shizuru thought the size of the Child had to deal with any strong emotion, not just love.

true... i kind of forgot about that. sweatdrop i just see, i have to watch my-hime again, haha.

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by MissSoccerNinja on Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:39 pm

she-ga-roo wrote:
SpiralDasher wrote:I seems to have a built in sensor that tells me when to log into sites to respond... o_O Anyway.

she-ga-roo wrote:on the other hand... there just hit me one thought: it seems that everyone who want seems to see shizuru as a bad person, because of the killing she had done out of her love for natsuki. i think that this is one of the main problems people who don't like her could have. this 'OMG, she killed so many in cold blood, she's a psycho!' kind of thinking. well, my thought was: if you really see just this part of shizuru which let her appear so negative, what's with natsuki then? if you look closer you come to a fact which would let her appear negative, too:
she killed her best friend and most precious person shizuru.

The thing with Shizuru murdering is that she went after non-Himes. In Shizuru's case, she tried to kill Nao twice, once when she was no longer a Hime, and the First District people. I think Yukino also went after Mai when Kagu wasn't summoned? I can't remember hers exactly.
That's not quite the same with Natsuki: I think that was Natsuki being a hero and self-sacrificing herself so Mai could win. She knew only only one Hime could be the winner in order to get to the Obsidian Lord, so she sacrificed herself and took on Shizuru.

This is how I interpret it in any case.

you're right. i think like that, too. i didn't mean to let natsuki appear in a bad light. i just wanted to compare things. like i said, i like shizuru so i don't know exactly why people might dislike her. but if it is because of the killing-thing, i thought that after this logik natsuki should appear negative, too. gah, i fail at explaining sweatdrop

SpiralDasher wrote:
she-ga-roo wrote:she didn't know it would be herself, since she thought that natsuki kind of hated her.

She responded to Duran's growth with, "Do you really hate me that much?!" which I take as, Shizuru knew she was Natsuki's MIP, but Shizuru thought the size of the Child had to deal with any strong emotion, not just love.

true... i kind of forgot about that. sweatdrop i just see, i have to watch my-hime again, haha.

SpiralDasher: I agree with your "She responded to Duran's growth..." paragraph. I also think you make a good point that it may be harder to forgive Shizuru because she went after non-himes. (District 1 may have been the "bad guys" but they were still at a big distadvantage when fighting a hime (like Shizuru). It wasn't a fair fight in that case.)

she-ga-roo: I agree with your "on the other hand..." post. Don't worry, I think this is true (that people who may dislike Shizuru can forgive other characters for similar things) for many characters, including Natsuki. In addition to what you said about Natsuki (And what SpiralDasher said about Yukino), there are Mai, Nao, and Miyu.

Mai killed Mikoto while Mikoto was just standing in front of her, crying. Mikoto did nothing but love Mai, and Mai killed her.

Nao made Natsuki crash her bike (an accident that just as easily could have killed Natsuki as it did injure her. I don't think Nao would have cared much either way what happened to Natsuki, although it would be better for her victim to be alive so she could make her suffer more). Then Nao manipulated Shizuru (using Natsuki as bait). (Side note: Shizuru may have tried to kill a defenseless Nao, but she was provoked by Nao. If Nao hadn't tried to manipulate/lure out Shizuru, she wouldn't have gotten into that mess.)

Miyu killed Kazu (by defeating Akane). She was a robot with a pre-programmed, evil mission. If it was in her programming to kill anybody, would she kill anybody (even Alyssa?)...?

Thread: The above paragraphs are just looking at these characters in a very cynical sense. I realize (very much so) that many people who read the above paragraphs were defending Mai, Nao, and Miyu, in their minds as they were reading it (just as I was doing in my own mind while writing the paragraphs). (For example: "Well, when Mai killed Mikoto, she had thought Mikoto had killed Takumi, and she was beside herself with rage and grief...") My point is: almost any character can look bad if you really want them to. And also, almost any character can look good if you want them to.

Take Alphard, from Canaan. For those of you who haven't seen Canaan,
Alphard's the bad guy throughout the entire show. She does things that are evil, cruel, and psychopathic. She neglects, and eventually leads to the death of, her own sister. When her sister dies, or anybody dies (including when she kills people), Alphard doesn't seem to give a damn. She shot a man in cold blood, in front of a girl that loved that man. Her whole purpose for living is hate and malicious revenge. But for people who are Alphard fans (which I was only after finishing the entire show), Alphard is redeemed at the end because it is possible to find human (not just evil/psychopathic) qualities in her. You can see her possible reasoning behind her actions, and how events in her past may have contributed to her being mentally unstable (Alphard may have been jealous, and felt betrayed, which lead to her hate) and vengeful. Maybe you can even see her having romantic feelings for Canaan. (I think love is a very human quality.)

Once again, I think it's how we look at people that determine if we like or dislike them.

Possibly, the ultimate reason why people hate Shizuru, is because they choose to hate Shizuru. (Which isn't a bad thing at all. It's their own opinion, and it should be respected. As long as they realize that not everybody else feels the same way they do.) The information in the parentheses also applies to people who like Shizuru.

This being said, I'm going to shut up now so other people can give their point of view... sweatdrop

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by she-ga-roo on Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:47 am

MissSoccerNinja wrote:

Possibly, the ultimate reason why people hate Shizuru, is because they choose to hate Shizuru. (Which isn't a bad thing at all. It's their own opinion, and it should be respected. As long as they realize that not everybody else feels the same way they do.) The information in the parentheses also applies to people who like Shizuru.

This being said, I'm going to shut up now so other people can give their point of view... sweatdrop

hmm... this leads me to the thought: does this whole discussion 'Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?' appear a little senseless as long as we don't have someone here who really dislike her and give his/her opinion why? i mean we can think about reasons all day, but in the end we didn't really get an answer as long as there's isn't someone who can give us a clear opinion.
i don't have anything against people who might dislike a character which i like. hell, if that would be the case i would have a few friends less.

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:13 am

she-ga-roo wrote:hmm... this leads me to the thought: does this whole discussion 'Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?' appear a little senseless as long as we don't have someone here who really dislike her and give his/her opinion why? i mean we can think about reasons all day, but in the end we didn't really get an answer as long as there's isn't someone who can give us a clear opinion.
i don't have anything against people who might dislike a character which i like. hell, if that would be the case i would have a few friends less.

While some of us did offer some insight as to how she could be hated, it would make sense to have someone who actually *hates* her (or *dislikes* at best) give their opinion for the purpose of me making one Hell of a counter attack. ;p Seriously though, everyone has an opinion and they're entitled to it. It still won't change how I feel about Shizuru, what it will do is offer a lot of thought within our community. :) We're not clones; which makes for a healthy discussion.

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by MissSoccerNinja on Sun Nov 06, 2011 4:09 pm

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:
she-ga-roo wrote:hmm... this leads me to the thought: does this whole discussion 'Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?' appear a little senseless as long as we don't have someone here who really dislike her and give his/her opinion why? i mean we can think about reasons all day, but in the end we didn't really get an answer as long as there's isn't someone who can give us a clear opinion.
i don't have anything against people who might dislike a character which i like. hell, if that would be the case i would have a few friends less.

While some of us did offer some insight as to how she could be hated, it would make sense to have someone who actually *hates* her (or *dislikes* at best) give their opinion for the purpose of me making one Hell of a counter attack. ;p Seriously though, everyone has an opinion and they're entitled to it. It still won't change how I feel about Shizuru, what it will do is offer a lot of thought within our community. :) We're not clones; which makes for a healthy discussion.

Agreed. =] My favorite part about this forum is both discussing things I agree with, with people I agree with, and discussing things I don't agree with, with people I don't agree with (so that I may learn from them). The latter concept is very interesting, because I usually end up widening my perspective on matters. This having been said, Luu, you're a Tomoe fan, right? I'm interested now! I used to think of Tomoe as just the girl who is obsessed with Shizuru, but now I'm curious. I'm going to check out some pro-Tomoe threads. =]

Does anybody know somebody who hates Shizuru?

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by BubuzukeOnna on Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:55 am

First, I giggled somewhat when MissSoccorNinja referenced my fic. I was the one who had her warming Natsuki with some mild kissing/touching(molesting?) but let's face it. Who could resist?

In regards to the "ending", while I was unsatisfied with it too, there's actually an expression in Japanese that gets used with relative frequency in business. The phrase is basically a motion to pretend that a situation (or something that someone had said, etc.) never happened.

I'd have to call the friend who's holding onto my books to go dig that particular one up, and give me the exact phrase. Things are just handled a little differently sometimes there, since being open and straight-forward aren't valued traits in the same way as in western cultures. I know a lot of people who have visited Japan for an extended amount of time have been very frustrated by that.

I don't think Haruka would have accepted that resolution though, so it's still a problematic ending scene despite the cultural context.

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by SpiralDasher on Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:24 am

BubuzukeOnna wrote:I don't think Haruka would have accepted that resolution though, so it's still a problematic ending scene despite the cultural context.

Ha! Now I totally want to read a fanfic where Haruka's an American traveling throughout Japan! (Hm... Yukino as a tour guide? Possible.)

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