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Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by Kuga Natsuki on Tue Aug 14, 2012 4:42 pm

Simply my opinion, but reasons why people hate Shizuru is because they simply didn't understand the story and the story's timeline. It is a complex story, in both HiME and Otome, and it's something that you REALLY have to figure out. I admit, it took me a bit of a while to figure out if Shizuru touched Natsuki when Natsuki was recovering from her accident, but I watched episodes 21 and 22 over and over and I came to the conclusion that Shizuru did NOT do things to the wounded Natsuki, for there was no way Yukino could've spied on them, since she and Haruka found out Shizuru was missing the next day after the accident and it was never mentioned that Shizuru raped Natsuki. Natsuki misunderstood and her mind just went elsewhere when she overheard the argument. Plus Shizuru said she never intended to make Natsuki suffer, so she knew her limits, and it should debunk the theory of her raping Natsuki

And in Otome, well, Shizuru was pretty much under Tomoe's grasp and Tomoe wanted sex as an exchange of the deal when Shizuru wanted Tomoe to request to set Natsuki free, so Shizuru had to go along with it and was planning out sneaky schemes by using Tomoe's infatuation when Tomoe was using Shizuru for sex

And the entire MIP rule, I'm sure Nagi explained it to Shizuru when Shizuru found out she was a HiME. Natsuki being her MIP, I think Shizuru hid herself and her HiME status when the festival was getting ugly, because she didn't want to lose Natsuki, but she had no choice but to interfere when Mai cracked down and when Nao kidnapped Natsuki on 2 occasions.

You gotta love HiME (and Otome), though, for all the hidden messages and theories about the storylines >:3

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:11 pm

DOA and Nymph make good points. No matter how wrong Shizuru's actions may have seemed to the general "hater" in our fandom, even they have to admit at least Shizuru HAD reasons for doing what she HAD to do. Viola had to pull a fast one on Tomoe to gain the upper hand and Fujino had to kill First District who were more or less, spilled milk.

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by GhibliFreek on Thu Aug 16, 2012 5:55 pm




okay no but seriously I am one of the "Haters" of shizuru
I used to be a fan of her admittedly. But however after watching Hime/Otome several times, I began to dislike her...intensely.
You're all welcome to like whatever character you want, these are just my thoughts on her okay?
She became obsessed with Natsuki, resorting to slaughtering hundreds of people...I just know I WOULDN'T BE TOO IMPRESSED IF SOMEONE WENT AND KILLED A FEW DOZEN PEOPLE BECAUSE THEY FEARED FOR ME
Also, she forced herself onto Natsuki...and it was just....weird when I actually thought about it. That just shouldn't happen and then for them two to suddenly be seen as the greatest canon couple...I don't know I just really don't like it anymore.

Again, just my input on this thread, we're all entitled to opinions :I

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by Kuga Natsuki on Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:12 pm

Although she did destroy District 1, it's not entirely clear what she had actually done. Plus I find it very weird that Shizuru didn't get arrested if she did slaughter people.

And her being obsessed, well, she was in love with Natsuki. How would you feel if someone was obsessed with you because they loved you or vice versa? I once knew a girl who was madly in love with me, to the point of being obsessed, but I took it kindly, since she was in love, and love is something I shouldn't and CAN'T mess with when it comes to someone else.

And forcing herself onto Natsuki, explain that more clearly. If you're talking about when she stole Natsuki's kiss, that's because she had been suppressing her feelings for years and she couldn't really take it anymore. If you're talking about that scene of her getting in the futon, that was simply all in Natsuki's imagination, because there was no way Yukino would've known about that incident since she and Haruka found out Shizuru was missing the day after Natsuki's accident.

With that said, I just think people shouldn't hate on Shizuru because she was in love. Love can lead to ugly things, yes, but emotions tend to manipulate us than us manipulating emotions. It didn't help either when Shizuru was suppressing her feelings. And Natsuki being someone Shizuru values so deeply, I don't think she would do something drastic, like raping Natsuki for example. She said she'd never intended, herself.

People should just give her a break. You can't help it when you're in love

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by IlliterateKoi on Thu Aug 16, 2012 6:56 pm

Nymphetamine wrote: If you're talking about that scene of her getting in the futon, that was simply all in Natsuki's imagination

We don't know that for sure, since it was never clearly specified. Whether it happened or not is all a matter of opinion, and I've found that peoples interpretations of that scene have a massive impact on how they view Shizuru as a character. I know that if I thought Shizuru had raped Natsuki I would not like her. At all.

Also, I agree that being in love makes us do stupid things, but I don't think that means that those actions should be excused. Even when you are in love, there is a line, and personally, I think that doing anything to someone without their consent, even a kiss, crosses that line.

Don't get me wrong, I am a massive Shizuru fan, especially Fujino, but I'd rather accept that she messed up than try to make excuses for her behavior. I hope that makes some sort of sense lol

On a random note, this is the first thread I ever posted in! I'd forgotten which thread it was that made me join Razz

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by Cheshire Kat on Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:00 pm

Nymphetamine wrote:Although she did destroy District 1, it's not entirely clear what she had actually done.

I thought it was quite clear, myself, actually. There were bodies on the ground, ruptures in the building's walls and floor, and the whole place was on fire. Shizuru struck me as being quite malicious in that scene; whatever happened to the old women, too?

And her being obsessed, well, she was in love with Natsuki. How would you feel if someone was obsessed with you because they loved you or vice versa?

I don't deny that Shizuru was in love with Natsuki, but it was a very unhealthy love. It was an obsessive love, much like how Tomoe's was in Mai Otome.

How I would feel if someone were obsessed with me... Well, that has happened before. It made me very uncomfortable. And I have been obsessed with someone else; I tried to keep it to myself, and the obsession left after a few years. But it's not the same with everyone.

And forcing herself onto Natsuki, explain that more clearly. If you're talking about when she stole Natsuki's kiss, that's because she had been suppressing her feelings for years and she couldn't really take it anymore.

True, Shizuru had been suppressing it for years, but that doesn't make it okay to do. In an anime or a television show, it looks cute and endearing and loving. But in reality, it's harassment, and it's not okay, no matter how much you want it or have been suppressing it.

If you're talking about that scene of her getting in the futon, that was simply all in Natsuki's imagination, because there was no way Yukino would've known about that incident since she and Haruka found out Shizuru was missing the day after Natsuki's accident.

I have to stop you there. Yukino said very clearly that she had seen what Shizuru had done to Natsuki. Saying that it was all in Natsuki's head is unfair, and in the worst case, is something along the lines of which a rape-apologist would say. We could see the shame in Shizuru's eyes once she had realized exactly what she had done to Natsuki, who she is in love with. But she quickly steeled herself and acted out in malice against Yukino for bringing her deed to the light, making Natsuki scream and flinch away from Shizuru when Shizuru tried reaching out to her. Natsuki was hugging herself tightly; a form of body language that is a protective, scared form, trying to keep your body to yourself and away from others.

With that said, I just think people shouldn't hate on Shizuru because she was in love. Love can lead to ugly things, yes, but emotions tend to manipulate us than us manipulating emotions.

I won't deny that love can lead to ugly things, but it is not a pure love that does so; it is an obsessive love. Obsessive love, like what lead Tomoe to attempting to dump the vial of nanomachines onto Arika's head, and to what lead her to using Miya to do her dirty work.

It didn't help either when Shizuru was suppressing her feelings.

No, it didn't help that Shizuru was suppressing her feelings. It didn't help either of them. It lead to a very ugly consequence; Yukino losing Haruka for what she thought to be forever, and Natsuki going into a state of depression.

And Natsuki being someone Shizuru values so deeply, I don't think she would do something drastic, like raping Natsuki for example. She said she'd never intended, herself.

She may have not intended it, but if she did it, it's no excuse. Also, most victims of rape are assaulted by someone they love and trust, not a random person on the street. The percentage of sexual assault within marriage, family, and relationships is staggering; I don't doubt that all of these people love and care for their victim.

Shizuru has an obsessive love for Natsuki, one that makes her want to have Natsuki, care for Natsuki, and have Natsuki love her back. I won't exclude the thought that Shizuru's love started out pure, but after so many years of thinking Natsuki was untouchable and never confronting her about her love for Natsuki, it became unhealthy. The reason she is on the student council was for Natsuki (I believe this was said in an Omake or a Drama CD), not to better the school. We can see that she's lazy around most of the issues that the council must handle, but when Natsuki is involved, she takes care of the problem like nobody's business.

This is why I just can't like Shizuru much anymore; my eyes were opened to her actions, and I couldn't excuse them. Like what Caleb said, these are my thoughts on Shizuru's character, and my examination of the events which occurred in Shizuru's small arc.

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by Kuga Natsuki on Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:13 pm

IlliterateKoi wrote:

Also, I agree that being in love makes us do stupid things, but I don't think that means that those actions should be excused. Even when you are in love, there is a line, and personally, I think that doing anything to someone without their consent, even a kiss, crosses that line.

Pretty much. The kiss was pretty much uncalled for, but like I said, and I'm trying not to make excuses, Shizuru suppressed her feelings for a long time, she couldn't take it anymore. But she knew about her actions and said her love was "wicked". There was still a line, since she told Natsuki she never intended to make her suffer. I'm pretty sure Shizuru wanted to do other things to Natsuki, but she admitted her love was wicked, so her saying that, I think she knew her limits, since Natsuki was someone she valued so deeply, perhaps to a yugen. This is just my opinion. Shizuru made mistakes. We all make mistakes, especially when one is in love, but people should just give Shizuru a bit of a break, because she knew about her actions. It's not like she did it on purpose and didn't care squat how Natsuki felt at the end. If that was the case, then I would've NOT forgiven Shizuru.

EDIT:

"I have to stop you there. Yukino said very clearly that she had seen what Shizuru had done to Natsuki. Saying that it was all in Natsuki's head is unfair, and in the worst case, is something along the lines of which a rape-apologist would say. We could see the shame in Shizuru's eyes once she had realized exactly what she had done to Natsuki, who she is in love with. But she quickly steeled herself and acted out in malice against Yukino for bringing her deed to the light, making Natsuki scream and flinch away from Shizuru when Shizuru tried reaching out to her. Natsuki was hugging herself tightly; a form of body language that is a protective, scared form, trying to keep your body to yourself and away from others. "

Yukino simply said that she saw Shizuru kiss Natsuki and "I saw what you did to Natsuki while she slept". To me, that doesn't prove that Shizuru stripped naked and got in the futon, because Natsuki was also asleep when Shizuru stole a kiss. "While she slept", ok, but which time when she slept? If Shizuru did do something to Natsuki, then why did she look at her longfully before she kissed her? Imo, caressing Natsuki's hair to possibly raping Natsuki in her sleep is a pretty big step. To me, it was never clear on what Yukino meant when she had threaten Shizuru. If I was in Yukino's case, I would've blabbed it all out on what Shizuru did, but she never went into detail about last night.

And like I said, Shizuru said she never intended to make Natsuki suffer. I mean if she did do something to Natsuki when she was asleep, then why on earth did Natsuki forgive her? If I was touched in MY sleep, I wouldn't forgive my best friend. It would mean Shizuru helped Natsuki believe again for nothing.

I mean sure Natsuki acted in defense when she overheard the argument, but she imagined the flashback of her dream when Shizuru was about to kiss her then when Shizuru got in the futon. Yukino never went into detail on what Shizuru did, so how could've Natsuki known as well? Imo, it was all in her head. If I overheard someone say that I was kissed in my sleep, I would've freaked out as well and imagine different scenarios in my head.
---
"like what lead Tomoe to attempting to dump the vial of nanomachines onto Arika's head, and to what lead her to using Miya to do her dirty work."

To me, Shizuru's love and Tomoe's love are different. Tomoe was willing to kill someone and not care at all just to get what she wanted. Plus she more lusted after Shizuru, since she basically used her for sex, and against Shizuru's will, though Shizuru decided to suck it up and think of plots on how to escape. Tomoe didn't care how Shizuru really felt. She almost killed people just to have Shizuru.

Shizuru's love towards Natsuki was obsessive because she was suppressing her feelings for years, which doesn't help at all, and she was scared anyway if she revealed her love and yadda yadda. Tomoe's obsessive love towards Shizuru was more greedy. She wanted Shizuru and didn't care what others thought. Shizuru wanted Natsuki, but she cared on how Natsuki thought and didn't want to hurt her in the first place, which is why she was suppressing her feelings.

Ok, I need to shut up now. I'm sorry for this rant haha. It's not my intention to argue. Just to debate :)

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by Cheshire Kat on Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:16 pm

We saw Shizuru strip before Natsuki's futon, and Natsuki was asleep. Shizuru was willing to kill the entire First District/District One, and she killed a large part of them, most of which who would have no idea that the HiME actually existed.

Both Tomoe and Shizuru lusted after the people they obsessed over. At least Viola was willing to have a round with Tomoe and gave consent; Natsuki was asleep. She didn't know what happened until Yukino said it aloud. Yukino said she saw Shizuru kiss Natsuki, AND she saw Shizuru stripping down before laying down atop Natsuki on the futon. Yukino wouldn't want to go into detail; whatever Shizuru did was wrong in her eyes, and she only needed to bring the crime to light. I would not go into detail about something such as that either.

However you look at it, both Tomoe and Shizuru acted out of unhealthy, obsessive love. Shizuru shouldn't be forgiven because she's the second half of a popular pairing. She shouldn't be forgiven because Sunrise has horrible, rushed writing for finales and live-destroying situations (I mean Yukariko was raped by Ishigami, and at the end we see her happily, HAPPILY?! Posing for him as he paints a picture of her holding their child with a teddy bear as a stand in).

And in my eyes, it was really Shizuru who didn't care about hurting Tomoe. We saw that Tomoe wanted to hoard Shizuru for herself. And we saw Shizuru going along with it like she enjoyed the whole thing. She obviously didn't; at the end, she sliced into Tomoe with her words, rather brutally might I add. This caused Tomoe to hit her tipping point, and was nearly killed.

But Tomoe never killed anyone. She used people, but so did Shizuru, she manipulated, but so did Shizuru. Shizuru killed hundreds of people like I have said plenty of times before. She kissed Natsuki without Natsuki's consent, and then some.

Tomoe's love was also obsessive because she had had it for years. When she was a young child, she snuck into Garderobe and met Viola. Viola praised her on how she snuck in and gave her a peck upon the cheek. That's where it started. For Shizuru, she looked at Natsuki, saw she was a beauty, and the chase begun.

I just can't forgive Shizuru for the things she did. I can forgive Tomoe, because she got punishment (being called a traitor by your whole planet, getting mortally wounded), but Shizuru gets defence everywhere, not only that, but her crimes were swept under the rug with a "Ara, please forgive me!" I hope that in later series, she actually gets some backlash from other characters. I would love to see a flawed Shizuru who admits to what she has done, not one that gets away with the faint whisper of "ara."

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by Kuga Natsuki on Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:41 pm



Ok, whatever

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:53 pm

Shizuru has always been a sensitive subject. Just keep your cool, people. Nobody is wrong here, we can only go with what we feel. Shizuru did commit large amounts of sin and she does deserve some kind of a punishment/trial ala Fate Testarossa at the end of the Nanoha 1st season. Still, I feel she should be forgiven in the end. Even Tomoe for that matter, although she hasn't changed much lol. She's still a HiME and assisted the others in the final confrontation, it's one large step towards redemption, I'd say. I'll always be on here side of things, but that doesn't make her "haters" wrong. Maybe I'm sucker for this kind of thing, but I honestly believe in Shizuru's "I'm so sorry" tears when she was revived. They were not "I'm in deep shit" tears and Natsuki knows it. If Sunrise starts off a new season with ShizNat having a serious talk about the events of the Carnival, that would be incredible and a strong opener. I'm confident they will still care strongly for one another.

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by GhibliFreek on Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:22 pm

Nymphetamine wrote:And her being obsessed, well, she was in love with Natsuki. How would you feel if someone was obsessed with you because they loved you or vice versa?

And forcing herself onto Natsuki, explain that more clearly.

People should just give her a break. You can't help it when you're in love

just answering stuff here....sudden ocd whoops

well, if someone was like that, I WOULD PERSONALLY BE RATHER TERRIFIED...and if I was obsessed with someone people on tumblr would surely notice and get me to stop XDDDD

eh, she threw her feelings at natsuki, even though she showed no sign of reciprocating them,it just seemed to me like she was trying to guilt trip her or something.

eeeeehhhhhhhhhhh, that just seems like a very....vague excuse XD that sort of thing like "because of love" you think of dumb shit like skipping work or school or something...not quite the slaughterfest that was HiME XDDDDDD

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Mon Aug 20, 2012 11:35 am

GhibliFreek wrote:eeeeehhhhhhhhhhh, that just seems like a very....vague excuse XD that sort of thing like "because of love" you think of dumb shit like skipping work or school or something...not quite the slaughterfest that was HiME XDDDDDD

True, Mai-HiME was a slaughter-fest ala Battle Royale Hunger Games in many ways. You forget it was love that saved everyone in the end. So it plays quite a role. ;3

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by GAP on Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:49 am

The hunger Games thing is a bit of a stretch though but I see the point.

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by Ice Silver Crystal on Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:29 am

Mai hime and hunger games?
kyaaa I have adopted another genius idea for AU drabble! .////.
way to go luu-san!

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:36 am

Ice Silver Crystal wrote:Mai hime and hunger games?
kyaaa I have adopted another genius idea for AU drabble! .////.
way to go luu-san!

Thanks, Ice! There are some parallels you can draw from both. ^_~ Good luck!

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by Icemera on Sat Oct 19, 2013 3:20 pm

Many good points have been made (and I’m years late as usual). ‘Kay, these are my theories as to why.

1. Rape (and/or mass murders). Shizuru got away with it too easily. No punishment.

Personally, I think that Shizuru masturbated next to the sleeping Natsuki, though it was possible if she did more than that. And while I can understand her crazy love, it’s still sexual harassment. While I’m glad she got it easy from Natsuki, the result only made Natsuki look a bit problematic for forgiving her so easily. Then I came to a conclusion that Natsuki must have realized how strong her feeling for Shizuru was to not completely ignore it, but to forgive. If a fan would want to further punish Shizuru, fan-fiction exists for that choice.

Mass murders: it was cold. But a lot of people would do just that to save the ones they love. It’s human nature even if it’s on the less-than-ideal side. Shizuru just happened to be a character on the darker side; more selfish. It wasn’t a characteristic that is unimaginable or inhuman. We killed. We survived. Or we tried to.

Lastly, Shizuru shouldn’t be faulted that she defeated other Himes. Yukino being weaker than her shouldn’t make Shizuru automatically a baddie. Shizuru didn’t seek the fight. Yukino brought it upon herself. Same with Nao. The redhead just asked for it. If someone tried to kill my loved ones twice, that person had it coming.

2. Shizuru’s flirty nature (more notable in Otome). If she was an unfaithful type, then she was unworthy to Natsuki’s love.

True. Unfaithfulness quality can be a big turn off. Only I was under the impression that Shizuru had changed after Natsuki slapped her. I don’t know why some people were going about what went on between Tomoe and her. Shizuru was captured, not because she wanted to be captured. She just did what she had to. The first time I watched the series, I was hoping that Natsuki would come and rescue her. Alas…

3. Shizuru forced herself at Natsuki, disregarding Natsuki’s rejection. Some might find this quality irritating, disrespectful, creepy, etc.

I agree with this sentiment the most. The first time I watched Mai-Hime, I was laughing, in a good way, that this chick was absolutely crazy. After her breakdown, she didn’t even listen to Natsuki and continued to proclaim her love blindly. Amazingly, it turned out to be a genius move on Sunrise XD In real life, it’s creepy. Imagine if Shizuru was a guy, who stalked, molested and continuously claimed his love for Natsuki, while Natsuki tried to stay away. It’d be totally disgusting. Seriously. Then it all went back to #1 argument: Natsuki forgave her so easily.
I liked Shizuru as a complicated character, but she’d be so shallow of a character without Natsuki’s love and forgiveness. So, however I tried to crack the pairing, I failed. It’d always be Shiznat as they couldn’t be apart from one another. Together, they are just magnificent.

4. Natsuki fans, who don’t care for Shizuru as a character from the start. They preferred Natsuki to be the dominant one in fanfics. Shizuru was often portrayed as being ‘perfect’ only made it worse.

This is a personal preference.

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Sat Oct 19, 2013 11:45 pm

Again, I must comment on the Mass murder complaint. Great opinions btw, Icemera!

Unlike, say, Anakin Skywalker (again with my Star Wars comparisons! LOL!) who killed innocent women and children in Episode II and III, Shizuru murdered people who supported a cruel Festival that pit sister against sister. And I refer to it that way because most of the HiME were friends or close acquaintances. First District made lives miserable for the girls and the people of Fuuka who happened to get mixed up in HiME/Orphan affairs.

Shizuru killing them was perfectly fine with me; the ends really justify the means here. The only time Shizuru crossed the line for me personally was threatening to murder Haruka and Nao. Heck, she said all the HiME were on her hit list, all for the sake of love.

Shizuru Kaichou : My love is precious~ *sips*

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by Icemera on Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:30 pm

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote:Unlike, say, Anakin Skywalker (again with my Star Wars comparisons! LOL!) who killed innocent women and children in Episode II and III, Shizuru murdered people who supported a cruel Festival that pit sister against sister. And I refer to it that way because most of the HiME were friends or close acquaintances. First District made lives miserable for the girls and the people of Fuuka who happened to get mixed up in HiME/Orphan affairs. [/color]
To me, Shizuru has always been 'Anakin'. They even have the same hair color! Now, if imagine Natsuki as Natalie Portman *shot*. Anyway, I somewhat agree with you that bad people deserve to die. But even the people in shady group/organization have their other sides, which can be hard to classify if they were entirely good or bad, just like Shizuru. That's why we have laws, courts and jails, etc. It just a complicated decision to which is right or wrong.

I only brought this point up as one of the reasons why some people might hate her, not that it meant that I completely agreed with it.

Luu Sky Sapphire wrote: The only time Shizuru crossed the line for me personally was threatening to murder Haruka and Nao. Heck, she said all the HiME were on her hit list, all for the sake of love.[/color]
This made me go back and watch the scene last night. I'm curious. Because I thought that Yukino looked as determined to fight as Shizuru what's with that 'deadline is near' thing. They basically had the same thought about fighting for their MIP, and I don't think Yukino'd care much if Natsuki died in the process. She only got scared when she saw the size of Kiyohime. Pls correct me if I'm wrong.

Here, I think that Shizuru completely lost it right at the moment Haruka green sparkled. It was perhaps the first time she killed someone, who wasn't a complete stranger to her. Haruka being a Hime's MIP only reminded her of what her own MIP would be if she failed. Then she went batshit crazy from there with the Himes hit list.

Again, I could be wrong with my interpretation here. o.O

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by Luu Sky Sapphire on Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:38 pm

Icemera wrote:To me, Shizuru has always been 'Anakin'. They even have the same hair color! Now, if imagine Natsuki as Natalie Portman *shot*. Anyway, I somewhat agree with you that bad people deserve to die. But even the people in shady group/organization have their other sides, which can be hard to classify if they were entirely good or bad, just like Shizuru. That's why we have laws, courts and jails, etc. It just a complicated decision to which is right or wrong.

I only brought this point up as one of the reasons why some people might hate her, not that it meant that I completely agreed with it.
Natalie Portman is one of the actresses that comes to mind when imagining a live action Mai-HiME series. XD And after seeing Black Swan, Mila Kunis can be her Shizuru~ *shot*

True, Ice. I think this is where we differ in opinion, but I respect your opinion. See, if we allow bad people with "sides" to roam free, more innocent people will get hurt or worse. This is why (new example!) Batman's no-kill rule is a complete contradiction. Many must be sacrificed so one dangerous life (The Joker) can be saved and thrown into the revolving door known as Arkham Asylum. Thankfully, that isn't the true representation of the character. Just a PC one.

Regardless, I do agree with your theory on sides. Some of society's worst can be tamed or rehabilitated. It all depends really. In First District's case, this has been going on for centuries now. It's same to assume there's no sign of stopping it, that is, until the 2004 Carnival we know best. Not only was First District killed, the Obsidian Lord was also killed by the very Valkyries he took pride in pitting against one another. Shizuru Fujino Talk about irony!

Icemera wrote:This made me go back and watch the scene last night. I'm curious. Because I thought that Yukino looked as determined to fight as Shizuru what's with that 'deadline is near' thing. They basically had the same thought about fighting for their MIP, and I don't think Yukino'd care much if Natsuki died in the process. She only got scared when she saw the size of Kiyohime. Pls correct me if I'm wrong.

Here, I think that Shizuru completely lost it right at the moment Haruka green sparkled. It was perhaps the first time she killed someone, who wasn't a complete stranger to her. Haruka being a Hime's MIP only reminded her of what her own MIP would be if she failed. Then she went batshit crazy from there with the Himes hit list.

Again, I could be wrong with my interpretation here. o.O
It's hard to say what Yukino's feelings on Natsuki were, they were never made clear. I do agree that in the heat of the moment during the confrontation with Shizuru, Natsuki was the last thing on her mind. Protecting Haruka is top priority as was protecting Natsuki for the beautiful Kaichou. You're right on the latter, by the way! Yukino was intimidated by Kiyohime on first sight. Can you blame her!? Haha!

O.o No, it's a good theory. Only let's polish it a bit! Shizuru knew ahead of time what was at stake (Nagi implies that he plans on telling Shizuru about the Carnival's rules in the opening of episode 17). It was until she saw Haruka disappear that reality settled in. You were right, Ice. Way to go! Mikoto Minagi 

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Re: Why is Shizuru hated by some fans?

Post by PostoronnimV on Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:03 am

I love Shizuru's character very much, so I'm biased party. But I, all the same, would like to express my opinion...

1. Did Shizuru rape Natsuki or not? ... I never believed in the 'it was just Natsuki's imagination' explanation due to quite a few reasons. But I also never believed that Shizuru raped Natsuki. Because Shizuru truly loves Natsuki, not just lusts over her... Plus, Natsuki was injured after falling from a bike... and it was before Shizuru snapped... Maybe, like Icemera said, Shizuru just masturbated next to sleeping Natsuki...  Or, maybe, she did lay down naked next to Natsuki with some light caresses and/or light kisses... Or, maybe, she did lay down naked next to Natsuki and just hugged her and laid her head on Natsuki chest, close to the heart, because Shizuru had needed physical confirmation that Natsuki is with her, by her side and alive.

And, personally, I stick to the latter option... because Shizuru really needed a physical confirmation... Shizuru knew, the doomsday awaits them if there will be more than one HiME at the end of the Carnival... And defeat Duran/let Natsuki defeat Kiyohime is also not an option. Shizuru was trapped in a vicious circle.

2. The destruction of the First District... I think, Shizuru has made the Mai-HiME world better by getting rid of such an organization, she should be thanked for that... And destruction of the First District wasn't her goal, she had been manipulated by the Obsidian Lord... And, I think, that the OL would have used Natsuki(and not Shizuru) to get rid of the first district, but Natsuki had lost the desire to destroy the organization after learning the truth about her mother.

3. Defeat of Yukino's Diana and Nao's Julia by Shizuru... Well, these two girls asked for it... especially Nao... the first time, Shizuru was not trying to destroy Nao's child or kill her, Shizuru only saved Natsuki. The second time, Nao used Natsuki as bait to lure and then to take revenge on Shizuru... And, well, Nao was asking for trouble and she got them.

And sooner or later, all the same, they would have been forced to fight each other, because the only one HiME should remain. And I doubt that the HiME could have get together and negotiate like civilized people about who should be the winner and then let the elected one defeat them...

Plus, Shizuru was not the only one, who defeated/attacked other HiME...

Nao in ep 9, as soon as something did not go according to her plan, she did blow up in rage, and out of spite nearly killed Mai, Mikoto, Natsuki and Midori. Good thing that Reito had saved Mikoto and Natsuki had saved Mai and Midori.

Yukariko attempted to murder Mai, but Tate had saved Mai...

Yukino attempted to murder Mai, but Mikoto had saved her...

Shiho attempted to murder Mai, but Natsuki and Mikoto had saved her...

Also Shiho killed Takumi out of her jealousy of Mai...

Mai in a blind rage attempted to murder Mikoto, thinking that it was Mikoto, who killed her brother.

Nao, when she lost her eye,  got so lost in her anger and self-pity, that she even started to go against much stronger HiMEs, she quickly switched her anger from one HiME to another (from Mai to Natsuki, from Natsuki to Shizuru) and finally Shizuru stopped her.

Mikoto defeated Midori, Shiho and Fumi.

Natsuki is also not innocent. First of all, I am more than sure that Natsuki killed people prior to the anime started and during the anime, I do think so because of quite a few reasons. And Natsuki attacked Mikoto in the ep. 1. And Natsuki attacked Nao (Natsuki didn't care what Nao would say in her defense, because Natsuki already believed Yukariko in her accusation of Nao). And personally, I think, that if Mai hadn't intervened, then Natsuki and Duran would have defeated Nao's Child. Because, even though Nao's child was stronger, but Natsuki and Duran did have more experience, they defeated countless numbers of Orphans, while Nao was wasting her time on humiliating, then robbing a weaklings. Plus, unlike Nao, Natsuki is very good at controlling her emotions in serious situations.

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